New design cp4????
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
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Amazon sells this stuff for 25 bucks per 8oz which is enough to do 1 tank of fuel.
is there less expensive sources ?
also, a 4 dollar bottle of methanol would emulsify water in fuel .....is k100d just perfumed methonal?
is there less expensive sources ?
also, a 4 dollar bottle of methanol would emulsify water in fuel .....is k100d just perfumed methonal?
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,170
From: Western NY
Negative.
A four dollar bottle of methanol would also dilute the living snot out of diesel and create lube problems for the HPFP. If K100 was just methanol, my CP4.2 would have grenaded by now.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
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got it
walmart sells for 14 bucks so I bought a bottle to try it.
we don’t have any Napa stores in my area
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,170
From: Western NY
You talking for K100D at Wal-Mart for $14 for a 32 oz bottle?
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,170
From: Western NY
I get the 32 oz for 19.99 at Advance Auto Parts and I just recently found out that my local NAPA sells them for 16.99.
They are located in Youngstown, New York. Not too far from me. Here's the link for shopping on their site.
https://k-100.com/product-category/k100-d/
They are located in Youngstown, New York. Not too far from me. Here's the link for shopping on their site.
https://k-100.com/product-category/k100-d/
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Hotshot
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so this stuff is primarily antifreeze and alcohol according to the MDS. not disputing the claims on the website. was just curious what the composition was.
https://k-100.com/wp-content/uploads...ial-US-SDS.pdf
https://k-100.com/wp-content/uploads...ial-US-SDS.pdf
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I found this over on the Dieselplace forum from about 13 years ago:From: Tim Booth, Kinetic Laboratories [mailto:tbooth@K100fueltreatment.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
Thread Starter
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 2,186
I found this over on the Dieselplace forum from about 13 years ago:From: Tim Booth, Kinetic Laboratories [mailto:tbooth@K100fueltreatment.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
interesting, thanks for posting
i remember seeing an email about alcohol from opti-lube with the same type of message content. “The alcohol “ in 4 dollar water remover is “bad” alcohol , and the alcohol we use in our 25 dollar a bottle product is the good alcohol.
I wonder how rum, vodka , whiskey will rate...sometimes in the summer when I’m in the middle of no where and out of gas in my motorcycle , I go to the nearest liquor store and buy a quart of good alcohol to get me to the nearest gas station. My engine hasn’t blown up so they must be selling the good stuff in liquor stores.
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,170
From: Western NY
I found this over on the Dieselplace forum from about 13 years ago:From: Tim Booth, Kinetic Laboratories [mailto:tbooth@K100fueltreatment.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:10 AM
To: tbooth@macronet.com
Subject: Fw: Deisel Fuel Supplement K100
This is a copy of the attachment that was sent with the return E-mail:
The term alcohol refers to a whole family of chemicals that include an Oxygen Hydrogen compound connected to a central Hydrogen Carbon chain. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different alcohols in this family which may do good things in certain situations and bad things in another. A comparison is “good” cholesterol and “bad” cholesterol.
Does K100 contain alcohol? In a strict sense K100 does contain an alcohol. The alcohol compound used in the formulation of K100 was specifically chosen to eliminate water contamination in fuels, acting like “good” cholesterol.
In the past the “Use No Alcohol” warning has referred to certain “bad” alcohols that were added to gasoline to try to mitigate the effect of moisture contained in the fuel system. “Bad” alcohols will combine with water and form a weak or watery alcohol, but do not alter the hydrogen bond between the water molecules and merely dilute the water. Over time the “bad” alcohol will vaporize off leaving behind all of the original water.
Additionally, certain of the “bad” alcohols will dry out and embrittle many rubber fuel system components. In 2-cycle and diesel engines, which rely on the lubricity of the fuel, the use of certain “bad” alcohols will dilute the lubricant and reduce its friction-fighting capacity. These “bad” alcohols have been acting like the “bad” cholesterol.
K100, with its “good” alcohol, eliminates water and does not break down rubber in fuel line hoses, o-rings, and other fuel system components.
We are careful about using the word alcohol because without knowing the specific chemistry of which alcohol is under consideration there can be no blanket statement.
What’s in K100? K100 Fuel Treatments are proprietary formulations derived by Alice Otto, our founder, to deal with moisture contamination in fuels. Without revealing the entire formula or process, the greatest single component in the product is variously known as Butyl Oxitol, Butyl Cellosolve, Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether, 2-Butoxyethanol. The choice of the raw materials and the processing of them focused on a final product that would break the weak hydrogen bond between the water molecules and then use that valence to permanently bond a combustible shell to the water molecule.
Once the challenge of dealing with the water was met, certain other compounds were incorporated to improve the cleaning effect, increase shelf life of the fuel, increase lubricity of the fuel, increase cold temperature operation, and modify the fuel itself to increase atomization and improve the fuel/energy conversion process.
Today we are using fuels that contain all sorts of additives to increase octane or cetane, eliminate static electricity, increase lubricity, suppress gel points, reduce ash deposits, balance PH and such. Among these additives are more members of the alcohol family, including ethanol, which is itself a “good” alcohol.
I use an old Stabil bottle for dosing. Without having no where else to store it, I keep it in a plastic ziplock bag but open to prevent a little getting on my Carhardt cover. Believe it or not, it doesn't stink up the cab... At all. The bottle seals great.
Here's the chart I keep on my phone. For amounts less than what's listed, I just guesstimate the amount. You cannot overdose this stuff.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 87
From: North Carolina, Raleigh
So here's a question on the CP4.2 pump and the amount of these cp4 DKP kits in the aftermarket.
1.) has anyone on the forum that works at a larger dealership in the service, shop area ever come forward and say how many under warranty pumps they have seen come back for repair?? is the number that high ( like the egt issues on the 03, 04, 6.0L engine??) to make this aftermarket rush to find a work around that big a need..
I have heard a lot of comments on how the pump failure was blamed on "bad fuel or fuel contamination" and the warranty claim denied.
What defines "bad fuel" ?? fuel with water? My understanding is the fuel filter system is DESIGNED to remove or capture water, debris etc. from making it to the pump system in the first place. if that is true then how can the dealership claim "bad fuel".. has this been challenged in court? I am aware of the cp4 lawsuit but it appears to be crawling along with the manf. Ford, GM etc trying to get the class action thrown out.
This info was taken from the attorney Morgan and Morgan website.. apparently when the dealership "finds" metal shaving in the fuel tank or filters then the fuel contamination issue is invoked to deny warranty on a pump...cute right.. hence the class action..
<<"The CP4 also is said to struggle to supply adequate fuel to the engine under the lower pressure of these more efficient engines. The result is the formation of air bubbles inside the CP4. Air in the pump means that metal rubs against metal, causing accelerated wear. This will eventually cause the CP4 to fail, often around 100,000 miles. Before it fails, metal shavings are produced by the CP4, which travel into the fuel injectors and the fuel lines with catastrophic results.">>
https://www.forthepeople.com/class-a...ilure-lawsuit/
with the new 7.3L gasser now in the line up the whole diesel vs gas engine question just got,, either easier as in "hell no on diesel " or "yes to gas" to prevent a 13K problem.
and now with hearing ram went BACK to cp3 pump speaks volumes to me to the overall issues with the CP4 pump..
thanks my brothers..
1.) has anyone on the forum that works at a larger dealership in the service, shop area ever come forward and say how many under warranty pumps they have seen come back for repair?? is the number that high ( like the egt issues on the 03, 04, 6.0L engine??) to make this aftermarket rush to find a work around that big a need..
I have heard a lot of comments on how the pump failure was blamed on "bad fuel or fuel contamination" and the warranty claim denied.
What defines "bad fuel" ?? fuel with water? My understanding is the fuel filter system is DESIGNED to remove or capture water, debris etc. from making it to the pump system in the first place. if that is true then how can the dealership claim "bad fuel".. has this been challenged in court? I am aware of the cp4 lawsuit but it appears to be crawling along with the manf. Ford, GM etc trying to get the class action thrown out.
This info was taken from the attorney Morgan and Morgan website.. apparently when the dealership "finds" metal shaving in the fuel tank or filters then the fuel contamination issue is invoked to deny warranty on a pump...cute right.. hence the class action..
<<"The CP4 also is said to struggle to supply adequate fuel to the engine under the lower pressure of these more efficient engines. The result is the formation of air bubbles inside the CP4. Air in the pump means that metal rubs against metal, causing accelerated wear. This will eventually cause the CP4 to fail, often around 100,000 miles. Before it fails, metal shavings are produced by the CP4, which travel into the fuel injectors and the fuel lines with catastrophic results.">>
https://www.forthepeople.com/class-a...ilure-lawsuit/
with the new 7.3L gasser now in the line up the whole diesel vs gas engine question just got,, either easier as in "hell no on diesel " or "yes to gas" to prevent a 13K problem.
and now with hearing ram went BACK to cp3 pump speaks volumes to me to the overall issues with the CP4 pump..
thanks my brothers..
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 87
From: North Carolina, Raleigh
I am sure you will not get that info from ford short of a court order.. I was asking about the guys that work at the dealerships shops what are they seeing.. are they seeing 1 a month or 1 a day.. not high tech just a point of reference.. how many time has you seen something on the forums A LOT and when you talk to the dealership they are clueless.. only to find out later on it was a big issues.. so are they hiding the obvious it seems.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 2,186
Some months we see 2 or 3 on the forum ....cp4 blew....17k to fix
some months we see none.
I think what bothers us the most about this is he creative ways the warrant doesn’t cover.
take the water in fuel claim....why didn’t the water separator take care of it....are there any pcm log entries indicating the water seperator alerted and the operator ignored, etc.
I can’t be left on the side of the road over these types of finger pointing warranty maneuvers.
I order a DPK and it’s all ready to be installed soon as the weather permits.
some months we see none.
I think what bothers us the most about this is he creative ways the warrant doesn’t cover.
take the water in fuel claim....why didn’t the water separator take care of it....are there any pcm log entries indicating the water seperator alerted and the operator ignored, etc.
I can’t be left on the side of the road over these types of finger pointing warranty maneuvers.
I order a DPK and it’s all ready to be installed soon as the weather permits.