I was taking a walk around the neighborhood with the wife and 2 youngest 2 days ago. There is a King Ranch 2019 that I drive by frequently (admiring) and it's owner was outside so I stopped to chat (from 6 feet away of course). I asked to take a look inside and despite knowing the keypad was there was surprised and enamored by the fact that he didn't need his keys. So many times I have needed something from my car and forgotten the keys inside, was already outside without the keys... It is a fantastic feature!

 

Nothing against you in any way:

There is no debate on diesel vs gas, if so then answer please: Which is better, 30 06 or 12 ga shotgun? Corvette or Prius...you guessed it, they are different and so is the use and application. I have a Truck Camper tilting the scales towards 6000 lbs in the BED of the truck and I pull a 4000lb trailer, for 19,200 lb loaded. This WHY I have a diesel instead of a gasser, nothing to debate. Those that try to debate apples and oranges which tastes better are not debating, just arguing over which flavor they each like.

Keeping any modern car for 16.7 years and 250k miles will result in a lot of stuff going bad be it diesel or gas.

By the way, there is a guy on here who has a SD, I think a 17, with 436,XXX mi on it with not major issues. He is a rocket driver, fast haulers. He posted a pic of his dash and mi. IIRC it was a F 350.

As for Doc7 I do not believe his 41 ft 5th wheel numbers will be the same as he posted when he loads out. My Cedar Creek 34 ft was well over the numbers he posted for his 41 he is looking at. Not calling him untruthful, but like the sticker on my truck camper 'As built' 4310 lb, but loaded out with wife and dogs for week long I am around 5700 lbs.

For my belief that he is going to tow/haul far more weight I think the diesel is the best long term approach. IF his load numbers are what Doc7 said then you are in gasser space...

 

I don't buy into the miles per year theory my self. I believe it is how the miles are accumulated. My '19 F450 king Ranch will be 1 year old next month and has 8,000 miles on it, the shortest drive it has been on is 10 miles to town, maybe 3 times. 3,200 miles of that was 5 starts on the engine put on in 4 days. 90% of the time it is sitting in the garage 80% of the time it is out of the garage it has one of my trailers hooked to it and working. I do believe if you are short running it all the time ie. couple mile trips that it would reduce the life expectancy and multiply the maintenance cost.
I do need to drive it more to get the mileage of the warranty close to the calendar time of the warranty.

 

doc7string,
I'm not here to give you any advice concerning the diesel/gas or F-150/250/350/450 choice. I currently have a Super Duty on order but is currently in quarantine until the Kentucky plant starts again. Like you, I have been on this site for a bit looking for advice from those who have the knowledge to make an educated decision. Back in the day, when I ordered my 2000 F-150 with the 5.4 engine, someone recommended I go to a Super Duty with the 7.3 diesel engine because I was in the military and moved around a lot. I had told him I don't need such a big truck and don't really need it. I'm very conscious how I spend my money and debate the spending on assets or liabilities all the time. Now fast forward to today... My F-150 did everything I asked her to do and more. With a little over 140K on the clock, she still is strong but burns a little oil. Hindsight, I should have just got the Super Duty and would most likely have it to this day. In the future, I currently plan to pull a tailor or a 5th wheel but don't know which. I will buy the trailer/5th to fit my truck and not the other way around. When I told my folks, I plan to buy a 1 ton, they asked "what the hell do you want to do with that?", I said, "anything I want." The new diesel emissions stuff has me worried, but I see plenty of older Super Duty diesels running around my area with the current emissions. Is this more of a want than a need? Probably. I'm I making up for the mistake of not getting a Super Duty in the past? Maybe. In the end, I'm in a different position now than in the past and if the Super Duty is the wrong decision, I’ll just trade it in for something else. Now if the F-450 came with different rear gears, that is one heck of a truck!!
Now that I wasted your time by rambling and not giving advice, I wish you the best and thank you for your service!

 

Appreciate the above very much the 5th wheel I am referencing is far right in this chart. I can't say it is accurate, but these are the numbers from the catalog.

 

Oh my, sorry for the giant picture.

 

Not a waste of my time, I am always one for a great story with some subtle advice and thought!

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I must admit, I would prefer the diesel (rather have too much than too little) but I don't want to be foolish either. My average daily drive is 32 miles each way, with 1 or 2 10 mile drives in between. Its mostly highway, traffic for about half of the trip and then 70 mph the rest of the way.

 

I am sure its accurate, just like my chart on my new Truck Camper. What you have is published weights. This is not travel weight for holiday or work or what ever use. Here are 3 weights:

3955 is base wt for my truck camper

4372 is 'as built' wt for my TC

My loaded truck-only wt is 9460 lbs

My ruck with TC is 15180

15180 - 9460 = 5720 lbs or a 1348 lb difference between As Built wt and as loaded for vacation wt.

Take away with a 41 ft 5th wheel you may well end up with more wt on the 5th wheel and the pin that the chart states. I am 1300 lb over and my Truck Camper fits in the bed of the truck. Of course you may not, all the dishes are just paper plates and plastic spoons, wife packs one can of beans per day...LOL you get my drift.

Your a Doc and I am an engineer who career was MISSION CRITCAL architectures, if it went down it costs in the $M's on day 1 and got worse from there. So my bias is to over build to prevent failure due to its catastrophic results...thus: If only I knew then what I know now, my first truck would have been a F 450. I would have bypassed the world of F 350's completely and saved a whole lot of $$$

Anyhow I am NOT trying to convince you, but rather get you to consider the situation and project your needs forward and see if they still meet the ability and capability of your tool set...truck.

 

I really appreciate you efforts here. You've taken a lot of your time to help me. Unfortunately, If it wasn't for my need to use the truck as a daily driver much of the year, I would end this conversation by saying Yes, I will get a dually. Unfortunately, I can't. I have not yet purchased a truck or 5th wheel and with the help of guys like you I will hopefully not make a mistake in my choices. Your comments are heading me in the direction of a good decision. I do have a quick question though. I was under the impression that if the 5th was loaded evenly front to back (not that I believe it is easy to do that perfectly) it doesn't affect the pin. I realize that cargo in the truck, passenger weight, gas, options added to the truck... all decrease my available payload, but if I keep the 5th balanced (like a teeter totter) I would not be adding further to the pin weight. I will let your experience correct my thoughts if necessary. Thanks again.

 

While this would be correct in theory, it does not actually work that way. The axles on a 5th wheel are never centered as a perfect pivot. Also, with the pass-thru storage, front storage, and everything front of the axles, you add pin weight. So, in order to balance that, without adding pin weight, you would have to disproportionately add weight to the rear after the axles, which is not feasible.

 

Concur!

You bring up a couple of KEY point in towing: Spread the load and LEVEL your rig.

Doing these 2 will assist in mitigating some pin weight yes.

First spreading the weight, not easy to do and you are flying blind so to speak so mitigate just spread the loads in the area of use. Use all the cabinets in the kitchen. Keep as little as possible in your black/grey/fresh water tanks.

LEVEL: This is EXTREMELY important yet few bother with it. Put a sprit level stick on just above and centered on your 3 trailer wheels on each side. Procedure: Take a sprit level and place against the outer wall and centered between the tires when it levels, draw a line about 2 in. do on both side of the trailer. Stick a sprit level (Wall Mart, 2 pack about $3 bucks) on the line.

When you load onto the bed of the truck you are going to need from 4-6 inches of clearance between the bottom edge of your truck rail bed and the 5th wheel. that is your co-wittness point. Level up the 5th wheel ones truck rail and insure or do your best to level up at the 2 rear wheel sets.

I would shoot for 6 in vertical clearance and adjust from there. To much down on the rear wheels were lead to premature tire wear, suspension wear, wheel bearing wear and brake wear increased PIN wt. Weight to the rear wheel set will do same only on the rear decreased pin weight.

DO your best to = the truck-wheel leveling and only compromise if you must.

 

Forums are all about debate. There's a debate when every prospective buyer comes on here asking what truck to get.

Based on what the op stated the intended use of the truck is going to be, I think the gas option makes more sense economically. If it's a want and not a need, then by all means get the diesel.

In engineering we like the KISS method. If you have 20% less plastic hose Barb's under the hood, well that's less plastic to fail in 7,8,10 years. It's not just miles that wear a truck out. Time can as well.

 

Not in my world, Stainless, lined with plastic so as not to cut into the hose. LOL...

Yea everyone wants to debate or rather ARGUE...M 16 vs AK47..again, there is no debate, one is an apple, the other an orange. On the flip side, small block Chevy vs small block Ford, nows there is a real debate...CHEVY!!!!

My engineers would often want to fall into debates on GUI vs Command Line interface (shows how far back I go). I would caution, there is no debate but we can discuss the merits of each.

 

Doc, did you decide on the John Deer or the Kubota? I think either will pull your 5th wheel just fine!