What's next?
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
That’s ok, they’re sold out and on back order, apparently everyone else appreciates the amount of time and research banks put into the diff cover. Never once did he bash the others, all that was said is they’re ineffective and make false claims, and then he proved why. When it comes to the derringer style tuner the same methodology is used, never once does he do any bashing, only proves why they’re unsafe or ineffective in achieving their claims. Banks backs his products with research and is second to none in the performing this research.
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 535
Likes: 23
From: Arkansas
Some of the products it is just marketing and hype, however the diff cover is not. It’s been researched, feel free to watch the YouTube series if you’re so inclined, be informed of the other side.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
I have watched the series, very entertaining.
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 535
Likes: 23
From: Arkansas
And it’s quite obvious you are a hater and that’s ok, Part of being an American! I appreciate your opinion and politely disagree.
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,168
From: Western NY
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't need to watch that time slot in a video to know what Banks is about, because I stood side by side in the street with Gale Banks on his engineering campus in Azusa as we were both staring up at the roof top chimney over his dyno, looking for smoke. We didn't find any. My truck was on his dyno roaring away. For two or three days, Gale and I personally tested different combinations of air filters and air boxes on his then brand new flow bench some 20 years ago. Mr. Banks didn't pay to have his products certified "so he could show and let others know what had to be done, so that all the aftermarket could know". On the contrary, he paid money to have his products certified so that he wouldn't get fined in the future, because he is a smart business man.
Countless of other aftermarket performance companies have fallen by the wayside over the decades that Banks has been in business. 1973 fuel crisis, 1978 fuel crisis, 1980 high interest rates, 1987 Black Monday stock crash, 1991 housing crash, 1997 bubble burst, 2000 dot bomb, 2008 Great Recession... all the while, Banks is in business. He owns 8 buildings, free and clear, and I've been in most of them. He's hired engineers away from Cummins, designers away from Toyota's Calty design studios, and programmers away from lucrative software careers... to pursue their deeper passion for performance. All while playing by the rules, and operating within the law.
In the meantime, a slew of Johnny Come Latelys have come and gone, bashing Banks for poor performance gains, while faking throttle response by squeezing a 4.5 volt feedback range on an accelerator pedal down to a 2.5 volt range, so that when a customer taps the accelerator pedal, whiz bang, wow, so much faster throttle response... when the same power can be achieved by simply flooring the pedal, without loosing feather control when backing a trailer.
I'm quite familiar with how Banks operates. And you're right, I'm quite biased against the notion that some folks feel, which is that the laws that apply to everyone else, don't apply to them. That kind of attitude costs me money, because my tax dollars pay for all the new enforcement programs and budget expenditures to rein in these cavalier attitudes who don't give a flying duck about anyone else who is forced to breath in the soot of their good time.
Countless of other aftermarket performance companies have fallen by the wayside over the decades that Banks has been in business. 1973 fuel crisis, 1978 fuel crisis, 1980 high interest rates, 1987 Black Monday stock crash, 1991 housing crash, 1997 bubble burst, 2000 dot bomb, 2008 Great Recession... all the while, Banks is in business. He owns 8 buildings, free and clear, and I've been in most of them. He's hired engineers away from Cummins, designers away from Toyota's Calty design studios, and programmers away from lucrative software careers... to pursue their deeper passion for performance. All while playing by the rules, and operating within the law.
In the meantime, a slew of Johnny Come Latelys have come and gone, bashing Banks for poor performance gains, while faking throttle response by squeezing a 4.5 volt feedback range on an accelerator pedal down to a 2.5 volt range, so that when a customer taps the accelerator pedal, whiz bang, wow, so much faster throttle response... when the same power can be achieved by simply flooring the pedal, without loosing feather control when backing a trailer.
I'm quite familiar with how Banks operates. And you're right, I'm quite biased against the notion that some folks feel, which is that the laws that apply to everyone else, don't apply to them. That kind of attitude costs me money, because my tax dollars pay for all the new enforcement programs and budget expenditures to rein in these cavalier attitudes who don't give a flying duck about anyone else who is forced to breath in the soot of their good time.
Well why didn't you say that stuff before? I'm glad I called you out then. To find out you have a personal connection to Banks is news to me and pretty interesting I must say.
Jay "Lightning" Tilles, one of the hosts of the Truck Show podcast, works for Banks now. He and his partner, longtime automotive journalist Sean P. Holman,talk with John Espino who stated he has been with Banks since 1998 when it was Gale banks Engineering. What gets the conversation going is that apparently there was a meme going around that showed Fred from Scooby Doo, who was unmasking the EPA (bad guy) and a picture of Gale Banks was on the bad guy's head. John talks about CARB and how they were started in 1967. He also mentions that 1999ish, early 2000s when he said that there were no rules, CARB came to Gale for help on how to test. But you probably know all this already. When I stated, "so he could show and let others know what had to be done, so that all the aftermarket could know," I was just paraphrasing John when he said that Gale wanted "a level playing field for all." I am in no means trying to say I know more than you on Banks. You just came across as totally anti aftermarket for all. I'm a huge fan of Banks and with all the she yet talkers he has, he must be doing something right. If people can't see that this dude is the real deal, then no one can help them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. BTW, love that last creative sentence you wrote. I just thought it was a very interesting conversation with a guy who's been at Banks for 21 years. He provides a lot of info that some people may have not known about back in the day.
You know what they say Bruh...
Last edited by Overkill2; Nov 8, 2019 at 06:01 PM. Reason: add to post
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,168
From: Western NY
Okay in this Episode, #88, they talk to Korey Willis and Clint Cannon from ATS. Clint gives kudos to Gale. They also mention particulate filters coming to gasoline DI vehicles. Didn't I mention that before? Hmm...
start at 0:03:15 and end at 0:41:40. I guess they talk to a SEMA dude and KJ Jones from Diesel Power Mag but I'm getting tired. Maybe tomorrow.
https://truckshowpodcast.libsyn.com/...es-and-monkeys
start at 0:03:15 and end at 0:41:40. I guess they talk to a SEMA dude and KJ Jones from Diesel Power Mag but I'm getting tired. Maybe tomorrow.
https://truckshowpodcast.libsyn.com/...es-and-monkeys
Last edited by Overkill2; Nov 9, 2019 at 10:06 AM. Reason: correct post
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,299
Likes: 6,076
It was John Espino who first reached out to me, and introduced me to Gale Banks. My impression of him, of a kind that can only be felt and informed in person, was that of a Class Act. He was shrewd businessman to be sure, but his office spilled into the race shop, and during my time there, he was in the race shop and testing rooms far more than the office. On one evening, we were actually in his office, after everyone else had gone home. His son and I were trying to convince him of the so called influential power of the forums (back in 2001), and he wasn't buying it. He already was out in front of the forums, arranging, through the hands of Espino and also through Peter Treydte, special Q & A sessions through the most popular diesel forums of that era.
This was long before ANY of the most popular after market vendors of diesel enthusiast products for light trucks today... ever existed. Prior to the explosion of the internet at the turn of the century, it was Banks on the front cover, and the back cover of the truck magazines. Banks would only buy red trucks for test mules, because red would always win out when magazine editors picked a cover truck photo. In fact, Banks told me of a debate he was having with his marketing team, because for a while there was a blue color incorporated in his logo. The brand Banks was red, and the word Power was blue. Or there would be Banks Power in Red and white or silver, with blue used for whatever truck and engine model the product was advertised for. These were very overtly calculated and considered decisions. Yes that's marketing. And yes that's good business. Because new products can't be developed without money.
The engine head room has Lista cabinets lining every wall. I counted 25 die grinders in the porting station, each with a different tip in the collet. Works of breathing art were hand created there. I could go on and on, but then you'd think I was a Banks fan boi, and that isn't really the case, or the reason why I was there. I went there to challenge him to produce a better air induction system then what he was providing at the time. I also went there to challenge his advertised HP and TQ gains... hence that is why my truck was on his dyno. I already had the full Banks Power Pack installed before I arrived. What I came away with, was a sense of a self made man who acted on what he believed, who dared to deliver on his dreams, who was as passionate about his plans as he was about his product production. The performance gain for any given product paled in comparison to the person behind the product. There is a reason why he is still standing. There is a reason why he is as vibrant in his 80's as he was in his 20's. There is a reason why he has been in business for 60 years, and that reason isn't due to any one particular product. It is due to a philosophy.
Neither he, nor his company, is perfect, and this post is not meant to be an apology for that fact. I'm just responding to the remark regarding "it would behoove me" to see what he says. I've heard what he has to say. In person. He was talking about creating an air density meter 20 years ago. That was his plan. Now it is his product. Not many people are able to go from dream to delivery, for decades on end. When I was there, the world record salt flat truck was being designed... the engine, the truck, everything, from ground up. And that truck delivered the diesel land speed record he dreamed about, driving to the Utah, reaching the record, and driving back to Azusa. It takes money to make that happen, and he put his money where his mouth is.... without getting sanctioned by the EPA.
When Banks finally pulled his sponsorship ad from FTE, I thought back to that late evening conversation in his office between him, his son, and I about the relevance of forums like ours as influencing factors for people purchasing his products. Some how, he seemed to know, or to have been able to predict, a dynamic that his son and I both over estimated. We thought, being younger than him, (and his son being much younger than me) that we better understood the importance of the internet and the forums whereby a target market is reached. But we didn't. He already knew the attitudes that would likely prevail amidst forum fodder. He already predicted the howls of haters who couldn't afford his products. Instead, he kept up his advertising in Camping World, to retiree's with plenty of discretionary and disposable income, who valued rock solid reliability more than a brag tag from a Mustang Dyno.
He's not interested in the race to the bottom of the market. His race has always been to the top.
This was long before ANY of the most popular after market vendors of diesel enthusiast products for light trucks today... ever existed. Prior to the explosion of the internet at the turn of the century, it was Banks on the front cover, and the back cover of the truck magazines. Banks would only buy red trucks for test mules, because red would always win out when magazine editors picked a cover truck photo. In fact, Banks told me of a debate he was having with his marketing team, because for a while there was a blue color incorporated in his logo. The brand Banks was red, and the word Power was blue. Or there would be Banks Power in Red and white or silver, with blue used for whatever truck and engine model the product was advertised for. These were very overtly calculated and considered decisions. Yes that's marketing. And yes that's good business. Because new products can't be developed without money.
The engine head room has Lista cabinets lining every wall. I counted 25 die grinders in the porting station, each with a different tip in the collet. Works of breathing art were hand created there. I could go on and on, but then you'd think I was a Banks fan boi, and that isn't really the case, or the reason why I was there. I went there to challenge him to produce a better air induction system then what he was providing at the time. I also went there to challenge his advertised HP and TQ gains... hence that is why my truck was on his dyno. I already had the full Banks Power Pack installed before I arrived. What I came away with, was a sense of a self made man who acted on what he believed, who dared to deliver on his dreams, who was as passionate about his plans as he was about his product production. The performance gain for any given product paled in comparison to the person behind the product. There is a reason why he is still standing. There is a reason why he is as vibrant in his 80's as he was in his 20's. There is a reason why he has been in business for 60 years, and that reason isn't due to any one particular product. It is due to a philosophy.
Neither he, nor his company, is perfect, and this post is not meant to be an apology for that fact. I'm just responding to the remark regarding "it would behoove me" to see what he says. I've heard what he has to say. In person. He was talking about creating an air density meter 20 years ago. That was his plan. Now it is his product. Not many people are able to go from dream to delivery, for decades on end. When I was there, the world record salt flat truck was being designed... the engine, the truck, everything, from ground up. And that truck delivered the diesel land speed record he dreamed about, driving to the Utah, reaching the record, and driving back to Azusa. It takes money to make that happen, and he put his money where his mouth is.... without getting sanctioned by the EPA.
When Banks finally pulled his sponsorship ad from FTE, I thought back to that late evening conversation in his office between him, his son, and I about the relevance of forums like ours as influencing factors for people purchasing his products. Some how, he seemed to know, or to have been able to predict, a dynamic that his son and I both over estimated. We thought, being younger than him, (and his son being much younger than me) that we better understood the importance of the internet and the forums whereby a target market is reached. But we didn't. He already knew the attitudes that would likely prevail amidst forum fodder. He already predicted the howls of haters who couldn't afford his products. Instead, he kept up his advertising in Camping World, to retiree's with plenty of discretionary and disposable income, who valued rock solid reliability more than a brag tag from a Mustang Dyno.
He's not interested in the race to the bottom of the market. His race has always been to the top.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 227
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Check this out:
https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchild...incarceration/
How do you like them apples?!?
https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchild...incarceration/
How do you like them apples?!?
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FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,168
From: Western NY
*IMHO, the "CAA" is another scheme to make money. Just as superfluous as the products and tunes created by the same cadre of marketers seeking to make a buck off of the promise of performance.
The best metaphor that describes this ruse is the tune that reduces the voltage range of the accelerator pedal, giving the owner a sensation of "quicker" throttle response, simply because the pedal position sensor has been remapped to less refined resolution for the distance traveled. Look Ma, I've got way more Powa! Yeah, right.
Please keep in mind that this post is written in voice of an individual member of FTE, not of a moderator of FTE.
Any law is FREE to read. Absolutely free. It takes but a middle school education to read them. It doesn't take a consulting agency.
CAA is acting as an interpreter. An English language interpreter to speakers of the English language. How redundant is that? Yet people pay for it. Amazing.
**In fact, the laws don't even have to be read, or even known about, if one leaves the emissions equipment on a vehicle alone.
The best metaphor that describes this ruse is the tune that reduces the voltage range of the accelerator pedal, giving the owner a sensation of "quicker" throttle response, simply because the pedal position sensor has been remapped to less refined resolution for the distance traveled. Look Ma, I've got way more Powa! Yeah, right.
Please keep in mind that this post is written in voice of an individual member of FTE, not of a moderator of FTE.
Any law is FREE to read. Absolutely free. It takes but a middle school education to read them. It doesn't take a consulting agency.
CAA is acting as an interpreter. An English language interpreter to speakers of the English language. How redundant is that? Yet people pay for it. Amazing.
**In fact, the laws don't even have to be read, or even known about, if one leaves the emissions equipment on a vehicle alone.
*This where I have to respectfully disagree with you. From the sounds of it, it seems that CAA will deal with more than just the diesel aftermarket but the gasoline market as well. Hence, the term "automobile" being used. In these podcasts I've linked here, they talk about the use of "GPFs" in Europe, gasoline particulate filters. You can bet your sweet @$$ that these will be coming to this country at one point. But this is just my unprofessional, non expert, blue collar, consumer's honest opinion. When I first pondered the question of why are all the modern gas vehicles tail pipes black, this all makes sense now. As KJ pointed out, a lot of shops and manufacturers have expressed interest in this. I think it will be a conglomerate of both gasoline AND diesel aftermarket companies that will band together so a group they can look forward to the future of this emissions legal world we have always lived in, but has now been thrown into the spot light by the coal rollers and YouTubers which forced the EPA to start coming down harder. People think that the laws have changed, when it fact, they have not. Just threw that out for info for the some of the members here.
As for reading and interpreting the emissions laws, that's one thing. Getting emissions compliant and passing the CARB tests are another. I just found out that the EPA doesn't have their own tests apparently if I understood the conversation correctly. What's wrong with forming a group to guide small businesses in this realm of emissions compliance. Banks would be a great company to offer guidance to this new group. Not saying he will or won't, and as much as I am a fan of Banks, he's not the only player in the game. You need other players to play a game. While I realize no one helped Banks but himself, why wouldn't he want to work with this organization to offer his wisdom? Just like what's mentioned in this next part of the previous podcast that I will link to at the end of this post, it would be a helluva business model to have shops set up across the country so that manufacturers and smaller shops could rent time to emissions test their products. Imagine the dinero that would generate for the guy who could pull that off. That guy is Gale Banks.
**That is what this is all about; making clean power and finding new ways to do it and keeping the emissions happy. Clint from ATS talks about how far the emissions stuff has come and how it will help with NOx reduction but also adding more fuel for power while keeping it clean.
What do think sells products? Just word of mouth or the guy advertising his products? Banks tests on the flow bench and also dyno tests everything. I don't think he gets CARB EO numbers by just telling CARB that his stuff is good and that it doesn't need to be tested. I had to call you out because I don't get the logic in your argument. Is it a bad experience with a Banks product or is this just an emotional "I hate Banks" thing? Asking for a friend.
It was John Espino who first reached out to me, and introduced me to Gale Banks. My impression of him, of a kind that can only be felt and informed in person, was that of a Class Act. He was shrewd businessman to be sure, but his office spilled into the race shop, and during my time there, he was in the race shop and testing rooms far more than the office. On one evening, we were actually in his office, after everyone else had gone home. His son and I were trying to convince him of the so called influential power of the forums (back in 2001), and he wasn't buying it. He already was out in front of the forums, arranging, through the hands of Espino and also through Peter Treydte, special Q & A sessions through the most popular diesel forums of that era.
This was long before ANY of the most popular after market vendors of diesel enthusiast products for light trucks today... ever existed. Prior to the explosion of the internet at the turn of the century, it was Banks on the front cover, and the back cover of the truck magazines. Banks would only buy red trucks for test mules, because red would always win out when magazine editors picked a cover truck photo. In fact, Banks told me of a debate he was having with his marketing team, because for a while there was a blue color incorporated in his logo. The brand Banks was red, and the word Power was blue. Or there would be Banks Power in Red and white or silver, with blue used for whatever truck and engine model the product was advertised for. These were very overtly calculated and considered decisions. Yes that's marketing. And yes that's good business. Because new products can't be developed without money.
The engine head room has Lista cabinets lining every wall. I counted 25 die grinders in the porting station, each with a different tip in the collet. Works of breathing art were hand created there. I could go on and on, but then you'd think I was a Banks fan boi, and that isn't really the case, or the reason why I was there. I went there to challenge him to produce a better air induction system then what he was providing at the time. I also went there to challenge his advertised HP and TQ gains... hence that is why my truck was on his dyno. I already had the full Banks Power Pack installed before I arrived. What I came away with, was a sense of a self made man who acted on what he believed, who dared to deliver on his dreams, who was as passionate about his plans as he was about his product production. The performance gain for any given product paled in comparison to the person behind the product. There is a reason why he is still standing. There is a reason why he is as vibrant in his 80's as he was in his 20's. There is a reason why he has been in business for 60 years, and that reason isn't due to any one particular product. It is due to a philosophy.
Neither he, nor his company, is perfect, and this post is not meant to be an apology for that fact. I'm just responding to the remark regarding "it would behoove me" to see what he says. I've heard what he has to say. In person. He was talking about creating an air density meter 20 years ago. That was his plan. Now it is his product. Not many people are able to go from dream to delivery, for decades on end. When I was there, the world record salt flat truck was being designed... the engine, the truck, everything, from ground up. And that truck delivered the diesel land speed record he dreamed about, driving to the Utah, reaching the record, and driving back to Azusa. It takes money to make that happen, and he put his money where his mouth is.... without getting sanctioned by the EPA.
When Banks finally pulled his sponsorship ad from FTE, I thought back to that late evening conversation in his office between him, his son, and I about the relevance of forums like ours as influencing factors for people purchasing his products. Some how, he seemed to know, or to have been able to predict, a dynamic that his son and I both over estimated. We thought, being younger than him, (and his son being much younger than me) that we better understood the importance of the internet and the forums whereby a target market is reached. But we didn't. He already knew the attitudes that would likely prevail amidst forum fodder. He already predicted the howls of haters who couldn't afford his products. Instead, he kept up his advertising in Camping World, to retiree's with plenty of discretionary and disposable income, who valued rock solid reliability more than a brag tag from a Mustang Dyno.
He's not interested in the race to the bottom of the market. His race has always been to the top.
This was long before ANY of the most popular after market vendors of diesel enthusiast products for light trucks today... ever existed. Prior to the explosion of the internet at the turn of the century, it was Banks on the front cover, and the back cover of the truck magazines. Banks would only buy red trucks for test mules, because red would always win out when magazine editors picked a cover truck photo. In fact, Banks told me of a debate he was having with his marketing team, because for a while there was a blue color incorporated in his logo. The brand Banks was red, and the word Power was blue. Or there would be Banks Power in Red and white or silver, with blue used for whatever truck and engine model the product was advertised for. These were very overtly calculated and considered decisions. Yes that's marketing. And yes that's good business. Because new products can't be developed without money.
The engine head room has Lista cabinets lining every wall. I counted 25 die grinders in the porting station, each with a different tip in the collet. Works of breathing art were hand created there. I could go on and on, but then you'd think I was a Banks fan boi, and that isn't really the case, or the reason why I was there. I went there to challenge him to produce a better air induction system then what he was providing at the time. I also went there to challenge his advertised HP and TQ gains... hence that is why my truck was on his dyno. I already had the full Banks Power Pack installed before I arrived. What I came away with, was a sense of a self made man who acted on what he believed, who dared to deliver on his dreams, who was as passionate about his plans as he was about his product production. The performance gain for any given product paled in comparison to the person behind the product. There is a reason why he is still standing. There is a reason why he is as vibrant in his 80's as he was in his 20's. There is a reason why he has been in business for 60 years, and that reason isn't due to any one particular product. It is due to a philosophy.
Neither he, nor his company, is perfect, and this post is not meant to be an apology for that fact. I'm just responding to the remark regarding "it would behoove me" to see what he says. I've heard what he has to say. In person. He was talking about creating an air density meter 20 years ago. That was his plan. Now it is his product. Not many people are able to go from dream to delivery, for decades on end. When I was there, the world record salt flat truck was being designed... the engine, the truck, everything, from ground up. And that truck delivered the diesel land speed record he dreamed about, driving to the Utah, reaching the record, and driving back to Azusa. It takes money to make that happen, and he put his money where his mouth is.... without getting sanctioned by the EPA.
When Banks finally pulled his sponsorship ad from FTE, I thought back to that late evening conversation in his office between him, his son, and I about the relevance of forums like ours as influencing factors for people purchasing his products. Some how, he seemed to know, or to have been able to predict, a dynamic that his son and I both over estimated. We thought, being younger than him, (and his son being much younger than me) that we better understood the importance of the internet and the forums whereby a target market is reached. But we didn't. He already knew the attitudes that would likely prevail amidst forum fodder. He already predicted the howls of haters who couldn't afford his products. Instead, he kept up his advertising in Camping World, to retiree's with plenty of discretionary and disposable income, who valued rock solid reliability more than a brag tag from a Mustang Dyno.
He's not interested in the race to the bottom of the market. His race has always been to the top.
As for Banks, I will buy and install a Banks Derringer tuner for truck. The fact that bobcat said they are on back order tell me there are selling like hot cakes. But as I've said before, I want to install an air fuel separation filter on my truck first before I install a Derringer. He has the market cornered with that type of tuner. Time will tell when the former "delete" tuners come out with really good emissions on tuning. I know Calibrated Power Solutions has been doing emissions on tuning for the GMs longer than the Ram and started to do tuning for the Fords later. I've always looked for reviews on Calibrated Power but couldn't find any. Korey stated he's been doing it since 2016. This big push back from the EPA will be good for the consumers because this will force the aftermarket to come up with better, cleaner and more advanced tunes. The little fish will continue to delete and tune, but they'll remain off the grid for fear of enforcement.
As for the rest of the conversation on that link to the podcast I first linked above:
https://truckshowpodcast.libsyn.com/...es-and-monkeys
They talk to the editor of Diesel Power mag, KJ Jones and former Banks Power employee, SEMA's Pete Treydte. Interesting conversation.
start at 1:10:28 and it ends at 1:55:04.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 187
Likes: 4
*This where I have to respectfully disagree with you. From the sounds of it, it seems that CAA will deal with more than just the diesel aftermarket but the gasoline market as well. Hence, the term "automobile" being used. In these podcasts I've linked here, they talk about the use of "GPFs" in Europe, gasoline particulate filters. You can bet your sweet @$$ that these will be coming to this country at one point. But this is just my unprofessional, non expert, blue collar, consumer's honest opinion. When I first pondered the question of why are all the modern gas vehicles tail pipes black, this all makes sense now. As KJ pointed out, a lot of shops and manufacturers have expressed interest in this. I think it will be a conglomerate of both gasoline AND diesel aftermarket companies that will band together so a group they can look forward to the future of this emissions legal world we have always lived in, but has now been thrown into the spot light by the coal rollers and YouTubers which forced the EPA to start coming down harder. People think that the laws have changed, when it fact, they have not. Just threw that out for info for the some of the members here.
As for reading and interpreting the emissions laws, that's one thing. Getting emissions compliant and passing the CARB tests are another. I just found out that the EPA doesn't have their own tests apparently if I understood the conversation correctly. What's wrong with forming a group to guide small businesses in this realm of emissions compliance. Banks would be a great company to offer guidance to this new group. Not saying he will or won't, and as much as I am a fan of Banks, he's not the only player in the game. You need other players to play a game. While I realize no one helped Banks but himself, why wouldn't he want to work with this organization to offer his wisdom? Just like what's mentioned in this next part of the previous podcast that I will link to at the end of this post, it would be a helluva business model to have shops set up across the country so that manufacturers and smaller shops could rent time to emissions test their products. Imagine the dinero that would generate for the guy who could pull that off. That guy is Gale Banks.
**That is what this is all about; making clean power and finding new ways to do it and keeping the emissions happy. Clint from ATS talks about how far the emissions stuff has come and how it will help with NOx reduction but also adding more fuel for power while keeping it clean.
What do think sells products? Just word of mouth or the guy advertising his products? Banks tests on the flow bench and also dyno tests everything. I don't think he gets CARB EO numbers by just telling CARB that his stuff is good and that it doesn't need to be tested. I had to call you out because I don't get the logic in your argument. Is it a bad experience with a Banks product or is this just an emotional "I hate Banks" thing? Asking for a friend.
I want to once again thank for your insight into Banks Power as per your past relationship. I see I struck a nerve with you and I'm glad I did because it initiated your long comments here. I love people who take the time and effort to explain themselves rather than the ones who make little remarks and don't expand on what they're thinking. I believe these comments about Gale Banks is pertinent to the original topic of "what's next?" as Gale has been ready for what's next a long time ago. He would be the perfect model to follow for the other players in this present and future world of emissions legal diesel AND gasoline performance. It will be interesting to see how the the "off road, race only" industry plays out with the "street legal" stuff. I believe the race industry is a viable one but that's what got us to this point today. I'm not judging anyone or any product, just stating the fact. If the industry is to continue tomorrow and grow, there has to be rules set up for "race only" products. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
As for Banks, I will buy and install a Banks Derringer tuner for truck. The fact that bobcat said they are on back order tell me there are selling like hot cakes. But as I've said before, I want to install an air fuel separation filter on my truck first before I install a Derringer. He has the market cornered with that type of tuner. Time will tell when the former "delete" tuners come out with really good emissions on tuning. I know Calibrated Power Solutions has been doing emissions on tuning for the GMs longer than the Ram and started to do tuning for the Fords later. I've always looked for reviews on Calibrated Power but couldn't find any. Korey stated he's been doing it since 2016. This big push back from the EPA will be good for the consumers because this will force the aftermarket to come up with better, cleaner and more advanced tunes. The little fish will continue to delete and tune, but they'll remain off the grid for fear of enforcement.
As for the rest of the conversation on that link to the podcast I first linked above:
https://truckshowpodcast.libsyn.com/...es-and-monkeys
They talk to the editor of Diesel Power mag, KJ Jones and former Banks Power employee, SEMA's Pete Treydte. Interesting conversation.
start at 1:10:28 and it ends at 1:55:04.
As for reading and interpreting the emissions laws, that's one thing. Getting emissions compliant and passing the CARB tests are another. I just found out that the EPA doesn't have their own tests apparently if I understood the conversation correctly. What's wrong with forming a group to guide small businesses in this realm of emissions compliance. Banks would be a great company to offer guidance to this new group. Not saying he will or won't, and as much as I am a fan of Banks, he's not the only player in the game. You need other players to play a game. While I realize no one helped Banks but himself, why wouldn't he want to work with this organization to offer his wisdom? Just like what's mentioned in this next part of the previous podcast that I will link to at the end of this post, it would be a helluva business model to have shops set up across the country so that manufacturers and smaller shops could rent time to emissions test their products. Imagine the dinero that would generate for the guy who could pull that off. That guy is Gale Banks.
**That is what this is all about; making clean power and finding new ways to do it and keeping the emissions happy. Clint from ATS talks about how far the emissions stuff has come and how it will help with NOx reduction but also adding more fuel for power while keeping it clean.
What do think sells products? Just word of mouth or the guy advertising his products? Banks tests on the flow bench and also dyno tests everything. I don't think he gets CARB EO numbers by just telling CARB that his stuff is good and that it doesn't need to be tested. I had to call you out because I don't get the logic in your argument. Is it a bad experience with a Banks product or is this just an emotional "I hate Banks" thing? Asking for a friend.
I want to once again thank for your insight into Banks Power as per your past relationship. I see I struck a nerve with you and I'm glad I did because it initiated your long comments here. I love people who take the time and effort to explain themselves rather than the ones who make little remarks and don't expand on what they're thinking. I believe these comments about Gale Banks is pertinent to the original topic of "what's next?" as Gale has been ready for what's next a long time ago. He would be the perfect model to follow for the other players in this present and future world of emissions legal diesel AND gasoline performance. It will be interesting to see how the the "off road, race only" industry plays out with the "street legal" stuff. I believe the race industry is a viable one but that's what got us to this point today. I'm not judging anyone or any product, just stating the fact. If the industry is to continue tomorrow and grow, there has to be rules set up for "race only" products. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
As for Banks, I will buy and install a Banks Derringer tuner for truck. The fact that bobcat said they are on back order tell me there are selling like hot cakes. But as I've said before, I want to install an air fuel separation filter on my truck first before I install a Derringer. He has the market cornered with that type of tuner. Time will tell when the former "delete" tuners come out with really good emissions on tuning. I know Calibrated Power Solutions has been doing emissions on tuning for the GMs longer than the Ram and started to do tuning for the Fords later. I've always looked for reviews on Calibrated Power but couldn't find any. Korey stated he's been doing it since 2016. This big push back from the EPA will be good for the consumers because this will force the aftermarket to come up with better, cleaner and more advanced tunes. The little fish will continue to delete and tune, but they'll remain off the grid for fear of enforcement.
As for the rest of the conversation on that link to the podcast I first linked above:
https://truckshowpodcast.libsyn.com/...es-and-monkeys
They talk to the editor of Diesel Power mag, KJ Jones and former Banks Power employee, SEMA's Pete Treydte. Interesting conversation.
start at 1:10:28 and it ends at 1:55:04.
If I had to buy dpf on tuning I wold buy calibrated tunes. They have been around a long time and know what they are doing regardless of make.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
What do think sells products? Just word of mouth or the guy advertising his products? Banks tests on the flow bench and also dyno tests everything. I don't think he gets CARB EO numbers by just telling CARB that his stuff is good and that it doesn't need to be tested. I had to call you out because I don't get the logic in your argument. Is it a bad experience with a Banks product or is this just an emotional "I hate Banks" thing? Asking for a friend.
Laughing Gas
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 969
Likes: 30
Originally Posted by 00t444e
Just about anything Banks sells you can an equal or much better product for cheaper. Banks relies on marketing to justify their high prices. Get on any real diesel performance forum and see what everyone thinks about Banks.
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,874
Likes: 9,168
From: Western NY
Last time I looked at the performance section here, it was guys talking about the older trucks and engines. I don't have a problem with the older gens, as I'm a huge fan of the OBS, but what are we talking about here? The 7.3s or the 6.0s? Or are we talking gassers like the 302, 351w, the 5.4 or the 460?
And if this isn't a real performance diesel forum, what is? Give me an example instead of generalizations. Explain this to me. Or is it because he does it legal and not the delete way??
They always do. I guess it's a cool club to belong to for some people. It is what it is I guess.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 187
Likes: 4
I looked into them way before and I believe they started on GM trucks. You have any personal experience with them or know someone who does? There was a member here I believe who bought their tunes. But I don't think he was happy with the way the 6R140 shifted. They seem like a good bunch of dudes. I was emailing back and forth with them at one point.
Like I care what total strangers on the internet feel about a guy who I feel is legit and the real deal. This dude has been doing this sheet for like 60 years.
Last time I looked at the performance section here, it was guys talking about the older trucks and engines. I don't have a problem with the older gens, as I'm a huge fan of the OBS, but what are we talking about here? The 7.3s or the 6.0s? Or are we talking gassers like the 302, 351w, the 5.4 or the 460?
And if this isn't a real performance diesel forum, what is? Give me an example instead of generalizations. Explain this to me. Or is it because he does it legal and not the delete way??
They always do. I guess it's a cool club to belong to for some people. It is what it is I guess.
Like I care what total strangers on the internet feel about a guy who I feel is legit and the real deal. This dude has been doing this sheet for like 60 years.
Last time I looked at the performance section here, it was guys talking about the older trucks and engines. I don't have a problem with the older gens, as I'm a huge fan of the OBS, but what are we talking about here? The 7.3s or the 6.0s? Or are we talking gassers like the 302, 351w, the 5.4 or the 460?
And if this isn't a real performance diesel forum, what is? Give me an example instead of generalizations. Explain this to me. Or is it because he does it legal and not the delete way??
They always do. I guess it's a cool club to belong to for some people. It is what it is I guess.
ive talked with Jim there numerous time and I buddy of mine here in town talks to Nick pretty regular. Don’t have any experience with their tuning however just guys on the gm side and Cummins side that LOVE them.