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I'm just grabbing three of the graphs I have not going through what may be the most applicable to your situation. While all of these show voltage real time, none show the amps drawn by the starter.
The stock 110a alternator with stock pulley, what you experience. It only shows until just after the glow plugs turn off.
A 140a alternator with the overdrive small pulley. The voltage rise occurs as the batteries refill, but they are limited by internal resistance of how much they can take in. That shows by no "battery amp" change after the glow plugs shut off.
And the L-N 230a with the stock pulley, a slow GPCM reaction day. Because of the high headroom in amps by the 230a, they batteries can take in much more initially before they heat up internally. The intake in enhanced though because I had battery warmers on so the batteries are at 75F. Warmer batteries will except more. That jump on things is why at the 5 minute mark in the screen grabs earlier the batteries are only taking in a few amps while the 140a equipped alternator is higher. The batteries are filled more early on while they can absorb it. That will help on the short drives, and why about 18 months ago with another member I recommended the 230a alternator. But it's a cost issue first, and the secondary of needing to get the batteries fully up with a secondary charger is still there, just not as fastidious. Also the GPs did kick off early due to the voltage, but the GPCM just kept off.
Editing in another graph.
L-N 230 small pulley without thermal battery blankets but a warmer ambient start temp. Now the battery exceptance is more like that of the Bosch 140a alternator.
That 230 amp alternator graph looks really good. Jack, sorry for the dense head, but do you have a best practice/advice/summary of what's your recommendation after your experiments/findings? Such as final conclusion like this:
1. Simplest mod: using 8 guage ... from here to here ..
2. Further advance mod: run ....
3. Upgrade alternator, etc.
I feel like I keep changing depending on what I learn. Just about every video I'm done I'd redo now, even last month. But for a snapshot now .......
New truck to me, what I'd do in order:
Clean all grounds and positive connections.
Add 8-6ga cable between Drivers Neg terminal and FICM/PCM grounds.
Add 70" 1/4" eye to 1/4" eye positive 2ga cable (cold weather go up to 1/0) between battery positive posts, and replace drivers negative cable with the same as the passenger side one, direct to block, leg to frame, 8ga to ABS ground.
If 100a alternator, upsize to at least 140a, 200+ if adding more electronics in the future. 200a will need additional 4ga parallel positive cable 30" 5/16" eye to 1/4"eye along with a fuse block.
If battery cables are in poor shape wait on 3 until I test what I am building.
If your FICM paranoid about low voltage, get 2 Odyssey 65-PC1750 batteries or add third battery option on frame rail.
I feel like I keep changing depending on what I learn. Just about every video I'm done I'd redo now, even last month. But for a snapshot now .......
New truck to me, what I'd do in order:
Clean all grounds and positive connections.
Add 8-6ga cable between Drivers Neg terminal and FICM/PCM grounds.
Add 70" 1/4" eye to 1/4" eye positive 2ga cable (cold weather go up to 1/0) between battery positive posts, and replace drivers negative cable with the same as the passenger side one, direct to block, leg to frame, 8ga to ABS ground.
If 100a alternator, upsize to at least 140a, 200+ if adding more electronics in the future. 200a will need additional 4ga parallel positive cable 30" 5/16" eye to 1/4"eye along with a fuse block.
If battery cables are in poor shape wait on 3 until I test what I am building.
If your FICM paranoid about low voltage, get 2 Odyssey 65-PC1710 batteries or add third battery option on frame rail.
Paranoid: who, ME???! Yup, I fit in that group. The batteries are 65-PC1750 tho (figured you just hit the wrong key, Jack)...
I feel like I keep changing depending on what I learn. Just about every video I'm done I'd redo now, even last month. But for a snapshot now .......
New truck to me, what I'd do in order:
Clean all grounds and positive connections.
Add 8-6ga cable between Drivers Neg terminal and FICM/PCM grounds.
Add 70" 1/4" eye to 1/4" eye positive 2ga cable (cold weather go up to 1/0) between battery positive posts, and replace drivers negative cable with the same as the passenger side one, direct to block, leg to frame, 8ga to ABS ground.
If 100a alternator, upsize to at least 140a, 200+ if adding more electronics in the future. 200a will need additional 4ga parallel positive cable 30" 5/16" eye to 1/4"eye along with a fuse block.
If battery cables are in poor shape wait on 3 until I test what I am building.
If your FICM paranoid about low voltage, get 2 Odyssey 65-PC1750 batteries or add third battery option on frame rail.
Wow, thanks. Can you please go a bit details on "replace drivers negative cable with the same as the passenger side one, direct to block, leg to frame, 8ga to ABS ground.". Is that adding multiple cables, not just a single cable? Would you mind to give me some info for the locations of those?
On my driver negative cables, one goes to the frame (routed under the air intake box) and another go to the back somewhere.
Your cable going to the back somewhere is not a stock cable.
Back in 2015 I starting looking into why the passenger battery typically failed before the drivers did. I saw it on my own truck, and when monitoring replacements during their life span it held true. Since I try to go for direct, but low cost solutions the answer was to get the drivers battery to work equally was a simple cable. My first video on battery cables. Second winter coldest days gave me a chance to recheck, and that showed real cold temps benefitted from a positive battery addition. Second video on battery cables.
Just recently while gathering data for something that others have asked me to do in the past, all new battery cables, I found out that with the dual alternator vehicles Ford uses the same cable assembly from the passenger side cable on the drivers side rather then the singular negative cable to the frame. While the simple added negative cable that I proposed in 2015 works well, especially at it's cost, the Ford dual battery cable is better. If I knew about it back in 2015 I probably would have done that and never gone down this rabbit hole of wire/cable testing. It would have same me a lot of time and a bout of phenomena, which I feel like I'm getting again.
3C3Z14301BA, List $77 Discounted $49. My added 24" cable ~$15. It helps a little more if your willing to up in price. The cost/benefit winner is the added cable I first proposed. It won't be necessary with my re-design.
In the factory install the terminal goes to the battery, the direct lug just like the drivers side, directly to the block just above the bottom stator standoff, and it's leg then goes to the frame. The 8ga cable that on the passenger side goes to the fender I believe will fit to the ABS grounding point above the headlight.
I feel like I keep changing depending on what I learn. Just about every video I'm done I'd redo now, even last month. But for a snapshot now .......
New truck to me, what I'd do in order:
Clean all grounds and positive connections.
Add 8-6ga cable between Drivers Neg terminal and FICM/PCM grounds.
Add 70" 1/4" eye to 1/4" eye positive 2ga cable (cold weather go up to 1/0) between battery positive posts, and replace drivers negative cable with the same as the passenger side one, direct to block, leg to frame, 8ga to ABS ground.
If 100a alternator, upsize to at least 140a, 200+ if adding more electronics in the future. 200a will need additional 4ga parallel positive cable 30" 5/16" eye to 1/4"eye along with a fuse block.
If battery cables are in poor shape wait on 3 until I test what I am building.
If your FICM paranoid about low voltage, get 2 Odyssey 65-PC1750 batteries or add third battery option on frame rail.
Thank you Jack for this updated snapshot (and I hope you're feeling better)! I very much appreciate all the work and effort you've put into researching, testing and showing us the value of this affordable upgrade.
I think I'm ready to finish off the negative terminal connections on the drivers battery with one 8ga cable to the FICM & PCM Harness Ground, one 8ga cable to the Minor PCM Harness Ground and one 8ga cable to the ABS Harness Ground.
It’s a simple cable to make, I’m showing how in the next video. I’m just waiting to get a few more voltage readings to publish.
The way I did mine was trying to minimize connections, although it more theoretical since I can’t measure milliohms. At the battery and the main FICM/PCM lugs for the 8ga cable I used a 4ga lug and the two 8ga cables fitted into that. It gets complicated because different companies manufacture their lugs to slightly different sizes. An Ancor brand 4ga lug fits 2 8ga cables loosely. An FTZ 4ga lug fits 3 8ga cables tightly. So with the FTZ lug which is a better quality I bare one leg long, fold it over, add the second 8a, hold everything with a wire tie to fit, then insert and cut the wire tie. It’s easier to see then read.
The cable lengths were 24” between the battery terminal and FICM, 16” FICM to PCM minor, and 12” terminal to ABS if I remember correctly.
It’s a simple cable to make, I’m showing how in the next video. I’m just waiting to get a few more voltage readings to publish.
The way I did mine was trying to minimize connections, although it more theoretical since I can’t measure milliohms. At the battery and the main FICM/PCM lugs for the 8ga cable I used a 4ga lug and the two 8ga cables fitted into that. It gets complicated because different companies manufacture their lugs to slightly different sizes. An Ancor brand 4ga lug fits 2 8ga cables loosely. An FTZ 4ga lug fits 3 8ga cables tightly. So with the FTZ lug which is a better quality I bare one leg long, fold it over, add the second 8a, hold everything with a wire tie to fit, then insert and cut the wire tie. It’s easier to see then read.
The cable lengths were 24” between the battery terminal and FICM, 16” FICM to PCM minor, and 12” terminal to ABS if I remember correctly.
Thanks for the detailed info!
I'm going to use genuinedealz again for the cable so I should have them early next week...
Your cable going to the back somewhere is not a stock cable.
Back in 2015 I starting looking into why the passenger battery typically failed before the drivers did. I saw it on my own truck, and when monitoring replacements during their life span it held true. Since I try to go for direct, but low cost solutions the answer was to get the drivers battery to work equally was a simple cable. My first video on battery cables. Second winter coldest days gave me a chance to recheck, and that showed real cold temps benefitted from a positive battery addition. Second video on battery cables.
Just recently while gathering data for something that others have asked me to do in the past, all new battery cables, I found out that with the dual alternator vehicles Ford uses the same cable assembly from the passenger side cable on the drivers side rather then the singular negative cable to the frame. While the simple added negative cable that I proposed in 2015 works well, especially at it's cost, the Ford dual battery cable is better. If I knew about it back in 2015 I probably would have done that and never gone down this rabbit hole of wire/cable testing. It would have same me a lot of time and a bout of phenomena, which I feel like I'm getting again.
3C3Z14301BA, List $77 Discounted $49. My added 24" cable ~$15. It helps a little more if your willing to up in price. The cost/benefit winner is the added cable I first proposed. It won't be necessary with my re-design.
In the factory install the terminal goes to the battery, the direct lug just like the drivers side, directly to the block just above the bottom stator standoff, and it's leg then goes to the frame. The 8ga cable that on the passenger side goes to the fender I believe will fit to the ABS grounding point above the headlight.
OK, I'm in and will verify the fit - it dovetails nicely with what I have already done. Will see how the frame mount works (size of eyelet vs, what is there). It also goes by Motorcraft #WC95749 - I bought it off Amazon for $43, that way I can return it if I have fitment issues...
Thanks again, Jack! Maybe one day I'll be able to rep you again.... :-/
Should be able to get to this next week and I'll post up what I find in this thread...
Scott, I know you were putting off the frame to block cable, but did you do it?
No - I played around with routing a 1/0 direct from Dr. batt. to Block, and besides overloading the stamped steel stock Neg Clamp, I didn't like any of my routes. So I never even bought the cable, and once you mentioned this option to me a bit ago - along with travel, colds (I shared your pain), and other priorities - I figured I'd hold off and look at this more closely when I had time. Next week Wife is off on a horse camp trip and taking the Motor home (that has been consuming my time), I should have some play time available. I still have the metal CAC tube to do, so might as well dig in for both. Want pics? I'll try to remember to take some...
