I may be off of the point of this post, but the bible is a viable guide for our lives when we believe in it. The biggest point that has helped my walk with Christ is that being saved is not about what we can't do but what we now have that priveledge(spelling) of having and doing.
Once saved and exercise the faith and repentance to continue being saved.
I pray that the people that stopped attending church will seek out a better congregation for their faith.

Prayer for all

 

Not all Christians have the same view on the rapture but if it does happen there will still be alot of people left sitting in a church pew.

 

Hi Waxy,

I haven't been following this discussion, but I'll add this quote, from the Westminster Confession of Faith. (It was written in the 1600s- lots of ministers from Scotland (and Engalnd I think) wrote it.)
From Chapter 1.....

We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverentd esteem of the holy scripture, and the heavenlieness of hte matter, the efficacy fo the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole, (which is to give all glory to God,) the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infalible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and wiht the word in our hearts.

Hope this helps.

 

And yet these people didn't think any one outside the papacy should have direct access to a bible.

 

Uh...... sorry, these people were Protestants!

 

Hmm, lemme see if I have two pennies!

The biggest issues I see in all of this are fundamental stumbling blocks that will inevitably trip people up. This is all focused very specifically and pointedly on religion.

SPLAT! There it is...

There is a huge difference between religion and spirituality, people. Spirituality puts forth the concepts:

a) There is an over being, or God spirit.
b) We each are individual spirits.
c) We as individual spirits should seek to be in touch or "At One" with the God spirit.

PERIOD.

Religion on the other hand seeks to define and tailor the means, manner, and specifics of who, what, and how we should worship and all (repeat: all) religions are at varience with each other due to their being definitions set up to be specific to particular societal groups.

In my view - there are no incorrect religions therefore, and at one and the same time they are all equally irrellevant to some degree.

I put this to you - The god of the pygmies, the god of the jesuits, the god of the christians, the gods of everybody...

It IS all the same GOD.

People worship in different ways, they percieve their concept of the supreme deity in different ways.

So what?

Check this one out: "Thou shalt not worship graven images"

Are you ready for this? What's a 'graven image' ???

Hmm... Could refer to a statue, or then again it could be a BOOK.
A book for example that has been edited over the years to allow and or disallow whatever the current dictator in a region decided was cool for their own purposes. Or for instance a book that is not allowed to be translated into the language(s) of "infidels" so they couldn't criticize it or prevent holy wars through foreknowlege...

Do I need religion? Why? Who says anyone else has any idea how best to worship either?

Further, if I am made in God's own image - then why should I ever die? Oops ~ There goes that whole "Hell" idea out of the window...
Who thought of that one anyway? The Gestapo???

I believe we are here to become Christlike absolutely.
Christ became Godlike. By extension, we should be trying to become Godlike in the sence that we become "At One" with God as best we can. We should attune ourselves with the God spirit and seek to do good works, as opposed to being selfish, self oriented, self seeking, and distanced from the almighty.

This is after all school - a very long and drawn out school indeed.

I believe my soul (or spirit) is everlasting, my mind (or 'self will') is also everlasting and coexists with my spirit, but that the body I am currently using (inhabiting?) for this particular hundred years (plus or minus a few decades) is temporary and makes little difference in the long run.

In short - I think I'll be back again, and so will the rest of you. We have already been here (on the earth) many times, and what we do while we are here determines how much else we have to learn.

Quoting myself:

"The earth is a three dimensional representation of a series of problems we must puzzle our way through on our paths through time."

So YEP! Religions in general are filled with people who focus on tokens, or books, or whatever - and have completely forgotten what they were setting about in the first place IF they ever had any idea at all.


~Wolf

 

Good post Wolf, you summed up a lot of my thoughts.

Waxy

 

Addendum: The above does not necessarily mean that religions are a bad idea. In point of fact, everything has to start somewhere...

 

Greywolf you make some very good points about religion. and most of what you say bears truth, but God has always raken care of his word. The dead sea scrolls and other manuscripts that were written when some of the 12 apostles were still alive, bear witness to the accuracey of the Bible. The Bible is not a graven image. Why would it warn you about itself? And if the warning were true then why would you believe it if it came from its own source? Kind of a catch 22 I'd say.
And on a final note where did you get the notion that you have been here before and will be back?
And on a final note, our soul and spirit are two different things, not interchangable terms for the same thing.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by fisher_of_man
there will come a day when the excuses won't work any longer...there is going to come a time when EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue on earth, and under the earth, in the heavens and under the sea WILL confess and proclaim Jesus Christ as the King.....there will not be a choice...there will not be an exceptable excuse...there will only be obedience....


So much for the gift of free will eh?

 

I don't smoke, I don't drink, & I'm too cheap to indulge (except for my fleet of vehicles)...but that pretty much nails my views.

I'm an atheist, married to a Wiccan.

 

The Christian god operates by blackmail...gee, nice and mature. Wait, that's right--read the Old Testament, & you'll see that god seems to act with all the maturity of a spoiled 2-year-old.

Suggested reading:

"Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist", by Daniel Barker.

"Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do", by Peter McWilliams (I suggest the hardback...paperback is edited)

 

I suppose I'll concede that - since there is a gray area between "Graven" and "Graven Image" (which is an "Object of worship, such as a statue" so Websters defines it).

(?) I'm not going to waste time splitting hairs. If that's how you see it, then fine. So long as it works for you. I don't see it that way. That works for me.

What did you think happened to Lazarus, not to mention Jesus himself?

A guy dies by crucifiction. His body is laid by in a crypt, and three days later he's walking down the road to have dinner in the next town with his friends...

There is a concept here - it isn't real slippery but it isn't exactly advertised either. There are other references here and there, such as the return of Christ. I suppose the term ressurection versus reincarnation could be argued back and forth, but I'm not here to play scrabble or engage in a battle of semantics. I'm fairly certain my essential point is clear.

Where I got the idea really doesn't matter either. Where did you get the idea there was not any reincarnation?

For that matter, Bibles have been rewritten over time. To my knowlege however, King James never got so worked up over the idea that he directed his editors and publishers thus:

"And make sure it has something in there that specifically states that we die, period. I'm tired of hearing all of this heretical stuff about beings coming back again"

Books used to be amazingly expensive. Only the very rich had them once upon a time, and they would have done little good for someone who was not allowed to learn to read in the first place.

I wonder sometimes if there is such a thing as an unedited bible in existance anywhere. It seems very doubtful.

 

You would have a very hard time reading it. It does exist or at least many of the books exists in the format they were orginally written in. Each book was written in a different language and time period and you would have trouble understanding the meaning of what they were saying unless you were completely familier with day to day living and customs, many things wouldn't make sense.

Which is part of the reason why there is so much disagreement over the thing now. Do you know how many different versions of the book of Genisis exist? All of them legit in one way or another. But which one is the One? That is why scholars spend their lives researching such things.

 

Yes, Wolf, there are a few..