I get what your saying, but my decision is being driven by budget, and the fact that beyond the HPOP I won't be modding the engine anymore for a long time, if ever. I can get Jody to burn new tunes onto my BD tuner for $250, Hydra is going to be much more to get the same switch ability as what I have now.

Is the MB Diesel HPOP better than the T500? They're the same price, what makes one better than the other?

 

I have felt that you were limiting yourself from the beginning with the possibilities contained in your poll. IMO you have built a very small box that you may very well wish were much bigger "when", not "if", you start experiencing limitations.

As you can see from my sig, I too have an e99 or did before the latest mods which is why this is relevant. The tunes from my first tuner never got even close to being adequate for the truck. The free tunes that accompany the Hydra were way better. They lowered EGT's, smoked way less, the transmission shifts firmly and smoothly without the harshness that makes you go "Oh, Crap!" and look in the rearview, the throttle is no longer herky jerky nearly wide a$$ open within the first 1/2 inch of travel, and the injector noise is way less. Oh, and I purchased a T-500 "unnecessarily" due to those tunes.

Why do you think you need a T-500? Is it just because it is a 15* HPOP? My old stock, supposedly weak, never rebuilt, OEM 15* HPOP is living a very happy life in another truck and is maintaining 2750 ICP all day long on Gearhead tunes on 160/?. It couldn't maintain 2000 psi on the old tunes and then would "spike" to nearly 3800 psi ICP when you let off the throttle. A tune writer can write tunes that cause the HPOP to fall flat on its face. Is it deliberate, to sell parts, or due to ignorance? Neither is good! The cause is excessive FIPW. Excessive FIPW can cause a T-500 to fall flat on its face or at least struggle to keep up. Is it less likely to happen with a T-500? Sure! However, the T-500 would then spike to a little over 4000 psi when you let off the throttle on those same tunes. But why subject your truck/wallet to that...IPR and ICP sensors, HPOP and HP oil lines, injector o-rings, injectors, heads, etc.

BTW, your FIPW is at 3.9ms. It should not really ever exceed 2.8 in "most" situations..... Try to lower it with proper tunes and we'll see what happens to ICP.

GaugePro offers great advice as he, DanV, Tugly, cleatus12r and many others did when I was in the same situation.

Maybe expand the possible outcomes in your poll. You'll likely get a lot more input/votes.

 

I saw abysmal ICP numbers, even in his stock tune - so it's not just the tuner. That's why I urged him to pull the tunes, because his HPOP is not up to the task or he has a leak. This is one of those "Get your truck to 100% before chipping" moments.

While the 20 PSI boost on a chip may sound impressive, I got 22 PSI boost with a stock tune, injectors, HPOP (17-degree), and turbo (red line mod, 4" exhaust, and AIS intake). 0-40 boost gauge on the far right:

 

Rich, it is quite possible that I am confused. I thought that the "agreeably" abysmal numbers that we all saw was before he reconnected all of the plumbing.

If so, then we need new numbers, both stock and with his chip, to evaluate what is going on before he spends any money on a HPOP or tunes.

 

Good catch. My wires were crossed - I thought I saw a WOT run in stock tune with the MAP line connected, but I reviewed all the files and I don't see it. We still need to see the logs from a WOT run with stock tune before we can call the HPOP. You are supposed to get 2800 PSI ICP at near 40% IPR in stock configuration. If you get that, then the HPOP is doing what it's supposed to do when not interfered with.

 

For those thinking we're just being **** about FIPW, IPR, and ICP - here is what happens when you have the combination out-of-sorts:

The first thing that called my attention to a problem was the burst of power at low RPMs, but a significant fade of power as the RPMs climbed. As soon as the transmission shifted up a gear, the RPMs lowered and the permagrin returned - until the RPMs climbed yet again. This is when I bought AE to sort it out.

I logged my ICP/IPR (but not my FIPW because I was just learning), and this is what I found:





When the performance tune was over-demanding of the HPOP, the IPR would go crazy in attempt to compensate for low ICP - to no avail. As soon as I let off the throttle, the rather slow-responding IPR was caught off-guard, as if it was saying "Whoa! Gimme a sec to crank the valve down!" Wanting to know more about the root cause of this phenomenon, I started calling up more PIDs and conducting more tests. What I learned is best illustrated by a log taken by a fellow member that was hauling heavy up a steep grade with a tow tune - lightly feathering the throttle to keep the EGTs down. To demonstrate how small the changes were on the throttle, look at the RPMs. To demonstrate the effect of FIPW on oil demand, look very closely at the IPR (ICP DC) trend:




By the way... I installed a T500 and it did not fix my ICP with the performance tune I had - it only got me up to 2400 PSI at best with WOT and IPR still went 100%. Today I get 3000 PSI at 42% IPR with a FIPW that does not exceed 3 ms - different tunes.

 

So, if I am understanding what I'm reading the Hydra alone could solve my issues and I won't need a T500? This is assuming it passes the Cody HPO rail leak down test, which I believe it will.

I figured out the oil burning smell my friend said he smelled. I have the CCV mod with the vent line running to the back of the truck, he was smelling the crank gasses which have a slight oil smell to them. I checked the exhaust on cold and warm starts and there is no burning oil coming from there.

 

Also, I can't edit my first post to change the poll, I guess I'd need to start a new thread with a new pole?

 

There is a very good chance that you may not need a T-500 based upon what we are/were seeing with the excessive FIPW. The fact that the MAP line was disconnected during the previous runs probably did not help the numbers. If you can or choose to, switch to the stock tune on your PCM and then log a run or two at WOT. This will be a more definitive test as to whether you need a new HPOP or not. If the HPOP falls flat on its' face (low pressure) then the "Cody" test is in order to see if it is in fact the HPOP, injector o-rings, injector torque, IPR, ICP sensor, etc.

If the HPOP excels on stock tuning, 2600-2800 psi ICP sustained during WOT, then we will have an idea that it is tuning related. It would also be helpful to see a log with the tuner in play again at this point.

After we see these logs, we can then give you better advice on the next step as far as tuning.

As to the Hydra: there are more people tuning for it than any other hardware platform. Choice is the deciding factor for people like me because we would like to be able to switch to a different tune writer if the current tune writer fails to address an issue. Gearhead/Matt, one of the tune writers, offers free updates to tunes after the initial purchase of tunes no matter what mods you do to your truck. This can save many hundreds of dollars long term...

If you re-read your thread from the beginning, you'll likely find that I am not the only person that feels your initial poll is limited...as well as some other info that is pertinent.

 

ok, I'll get the extra parameters Tugly wanted added to the log and pull some new logs tomorrow. I'll do stock tune on my way to work, and 100hp tune on my way home. That will give plenty of WOT 80mph+ pulls on both logs. If I have a chance I'll log the 50hp and 75hp tunes as well for giggles.

At this point the poll is a bit useless, but I can't edit it and I'd rather not start a new thread since I getting tons of good info in this one.

 

Sounds like a good plan.

I understand and agree on the new poll/thread.

 

Keeping this thread alive. I'm getting the truck back Wednesday from getting a new oil pan installed. I'll pull a stock and 100hp tune log and post back. Truck seems to be running great, but the numbers will tell.

Interesting observation, when I switch the tuner to the 75hp tune it seems to idle really rough, 100HP tune smooths out, 50hp tune is not much different than stock. The 50HP tune maintains lower boost at highway speeds, and gets better MPG, so I usually leave it there.

Looking forward to feedback on the logs.

 

ok, pulled logs over two days, making the same trip, one on stock, one on 100HP.

Hopefully I'm logging everything needed. I had to factory reset my phone so it took a while to get my TPro set back up.

The truck seems to be running great, so I'm wondering if an HPOP is needed or just some better tunes would max out the current setup and make a noticeable difference.

 

There is no IPR data, but I don't need it to know it skyrocketed on the hot tune. The ICP was looking for a crawl space to see if it could go any lower at WOT, the exhaust back pressure maxed out, but the boost never made it across the 12 PSI mark. Your FIPW in the hot tune absolutely murdered your ICP... 1200 PSI isn't fit to climb a casual grade when empty - let alone wow the seat of your pants at WOT. I can easily exceed 1200 PSI ICP with cruise control set to 65 MPH on the flat against the wind. I saw a feeble "Stinky Spike" at time stamp 07:18:29 on the 100 HP log, but that is about as high as the pressure you get at sustained WOT in stock tune. I strongly suspect injector O-rings, or a typo in the PID programming.

The HP numbers make no difference at idle - a selected tune is just not as dialed-in when the idle is rough.

 

Get the T-500. It made a big difference with my truck. Really came a live on the freeway and MPG went up as well. I have one of the first ones out, not even a tag on it, hand written. If you are lucky enough to have Cody do your tuning then stick with your HPOP. Most aren't. i'd love to have him tune mine but he doesn't do it all the time. Mines e99 as well with up graded everything but injectors at this point. Been wanting to do them for years. Just came back from a 3625 mile trip, vacation, and averaged 16mpg. I consider this good on my 99 CC LB 4x4 4.10 rear end DRW's. Heavy truck. And out of California 80mph speed limit.