Anyone using kill switches?
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,496
Likes: 94
From: So. Jersey
Howdy,
I am considering directly powering the IPR -OPEN with a simple hidden switch.
That way everything would be powered and appear normal, the engine would crank normally, but since the IPR would be powered full-open, the HPO system would NEVER generate enough oil pressure to start the engine.
The only way the thief could start the engine would be to disconnect the plug to the IPR. I am thinking that they wouldn't take the time to even find it let alone know what the "problem" is.
To prevent cranking, the switch could be double-pole, double-throw and also remove power from the starter solenoid.
Even if they directly powered the solenoid, they'd find that the engine wouldn't start and move on.
Cheers,
Rick
I am considering directly powering the IPR -OPEN with a simple hidden switch.
That way everything would be powered and appear normal, the engine would crank normally, but since the IPR would be powered full-open, the HPO system would NEVER generate enough oil pressure to start the engine.
The only way the thief could start the engine would be to disconnect the plug to the IPR. I am thinking that they wouldn't take the time to even find it let alone know what the "problem" is.
To prevent cranking, the switch could be double-pole, double-throw and also remove power from the starter solenoid.
Even if they directly powered the solenoid, they'd find that the engine wouldn't start and move on.
Cheers,
Rick
. If you're going to use a simple switch, you're better off to just open the circuit to the FICM relay. If you want double protection use a double pole single throw and break the key switch starter circuit too while using one hidden switch. You could also instead of a simple toggle use a barrel key switch or the like.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
Howdy,
I am considering directly powering the IPR -OPEN with a simple hidden switch.
That way everything would be powered and appear normal, the engine would crank normally, but since the IPR would be powered full-open, the HPO system would NEVER generate enough oil pressure to start the engine.
The only way the thief could start the engine would be to disconnect the plug to the IPR. I am thinking that they wouldn't take the time to even find it let alone know what the "problem" is.
To prevent cranking, the switch could be double-pole, double-throw and also remove power from the starter solenoid.
Even if they directly powered the solenoid, they'd find that the engine wouldn't start and move on.
Cheers,
Rick
I am considering directly powering the IPR -OPEN with a simple hidden switch.
That way everything would be powered and appear normal, the engine would crank normally, but since the IPR would be powered full-open, the HPO system would NEVER generate enough oil pressure to start the engine.
The only way the thief could start the engine would be to disconnect the plug to the IPR. I am thinking that they wouldn't take the time to even find it let alone know what the "problem" is.
To prevent cranking, the switch could be double-pole, double-throw and also remove power from the starter solenoid.
Even if they directly powered the solenoid, they'd find that the engine wouldn't start and move on.
Cheers,
Rick
So the best way would be to just open it somewhere in the harness. No ground no IPR action.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 117
From: Upper Left Coast
///////////////////
EDIT: Ok, I did a little more research on the IPR. It is powered OPEN. 12V OPENS the valve. That IS why you can start the truck with the IPR disconnected....no power, valve-seated allowing max pressure at cranking speed......
The only "problem" could be when powering the valve continuously is that you could overheat it (as one tester said on youtube).........I am not sure I believe that, solenoid valves such as this are usually not designed to fail with continuous voltage on them. I guess you could measure the actual current draw (I suspect it's only a few amps)
Also, you could probably put a series resistor in the "Kill" switch circuit to limit current. you only want the valve to unseat, It doesn't take the FULL 12v to do that.
You probably would have to determine experimentally how much current the solenoid would require to unseat the valve. I would imagine it wouldn't be much. The ECM controls the valve with pulse-width modulated current on the ground side (open-collector current control) ........so the valve likely never sees maximum current even at full throttle.
I'll have to get my hands on an IPR to "test"!
Sean, you have one?
Cheers,
Rick
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
The ICP is the one you can pull to get the engine to run. The PCM goes into
a default assumed pressure.
The CPR is help closed when you apply power. The valve does have a spring
to keep it seated. When high pressure oil is present the oil under pressure will
lift the valve from it's seat and allow it to pass into the crankcase. Also the valve
is controlled with PWM on the ground side.
So if you wanted to make it not start then I would do something like
place a relay in the line coming from the IPR to the PCM. Also I would
think about a relay that has very low resistance high quality contacts.
You don't want that relay flaking out on you during a trip.
EDIT : Forgot I don't have any extra IPRs
a default assumed pressure.
The CPR is help closed when you apply power. The valve does have a spring
to keep it seated. When high pressure oil is present the oil under pressure will
lift the valve from it's seat and allow it to pass into the crankcase. Also the valve
is controlled with PWM on the ground side.
So if you wanted to make it not start then I would do something like
place a relay in the line coming from the IPR to the PCM. Also I would
think about a relay that has very low resistance high quality contacts.
You don't want that relay flaking out on you during a trip.
EDIT : Forgot I don't have any extra IPRs
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 2
From: Southern Cal
I guess I have misunderstood how that thing works........... Then how does disconnecting it completely enable the engine to run if you have to power it removd? Maybe I got that wrong too!
///////////////////
EDIT: Ok, I did a little more research on the IPR. It is powered OPEN. 12V OPENS the valve. That IS why you can start the truck with the IPR disconnected....no power, valve-seated allowing max pressure at cranking speed......
The only "problem" could be when powering the valve continuously is that you could overheat it (as one tester said on youtube).........I am not sure I believe that, solenoid valves such as this are usually not designed to fail with continuous voltage on them. I guess you could measure the actual current draw (I suspect it's only a few amps)
Also, you could probably put a series resistor in the "Kill" switch circuit to limit current. you only want the valve to unseat, It doesn't take the FULL 12v to do that.
You probably would have to determine experimentally how much current the solenoid would require to unseat the valve. I would imagine it wouldn't be much. The ECM controls the valve with pulse-width modulated current on the ground side (open-collector current control) ........so the valve likely never sees maximum current even at full throttle.
I'll have to get my hands on an IPR to "test"!
Sean, you have one?
Cheers,
Rick
///////////////////
EDIT: Ok, I did a little more research on the IPR. It is powered OPEN. 12V OPENS the valve. That IS why you can start the truck with the IPR disconnected....no power, valve-seated allowing max pressure at cranking speed......
The only "problem" could be when powering the valve continuously is that you could overheat it (as one tester said on youtube).........I am not sure I believe that, solenoid valves such as this are usually not designed to fail with continuous voltage on them. I guess you could measure the actual current draw (I suspect it's only a few amps)
Also, you could probably put a series resistor in the "Kill" switch circuit to limit current. you only want the valve to unseat, It doesn't take the FULL 12v to do that.
You probably would have to determine experimentally how much current the solenoid would require to unseat the valve. I would imagine it wouldn't be much. The ECM controls the valve with pulse-width modulated current on the ground side (open-collector current control) ........so the valve likely never sees maximum current even at full throttle.
I'll have to get my hands on an IPR to "test"!
Sean, you have one?
Cheers,
Rick
It sure sounds like you're opening a can of worms...besides an IPR.
An IPR failure on the road would not be good.
I'd still go back to an electrical "open" to avoid overheat, malfunction, etc.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 117
From: Upper Left Coast
The ICP is the one you can pull to get the engine to run. The PCM goes into
a default assumed pressure.
a default assumed pressure.
I think I am agreeing with you though, If powering the IPR open using constant 12v for any amount of time caused it to fail, that would of course be problematic! (but presumably not as "problematic" as your truck not being there when you get back!!!)
But I am not really convinced that powering it open would would damage it. (yet)
And the easiest way to "power" it open would be to ground the PCM side of the IPR either through a resistor or a direct ground.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 117
From: Upper Left Coast
Watched a Youtube video where someone powered an IPR using a 12v power supply, with 100psi connected to the IPR. I think it "hissed" when powered (open?) and the tester announced the IPR was "Good"..... Did I hear that wrong?
AND if I did, thanks for the correction!
That just makes it easier to use a simple switch in the negative circuit of the IPR so it can be open preventing the system from generating enough pressure to start the engine.
Just looked at this thread https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...est-ipr-2.html
According to the "Ford Master Tech" the "default" (meaning UN-powered) position of the valve is OPEN.
Back to the original topic.
To prevent the engine from starting, and to "kill" the HPOP pressure, DE-power the IPR valve during a start attempt.
That sound about right?
//
AND if I did, thanks for the correction!
That just makes it easier to use a simple switch in the negative circuit of the IPR so it can be open preventing the system from generating enough pressure to start the engine.
Just looked at this thread https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...est-ipr-2.html
According to the "Ford Master Tech" the "default" (meaning UN-powered) position of the valve is OPEN.
Back to the original topic.
To prevent the engine from starting, and to "kill" the HPOP pressure, DE-power the IPR valve during a start attempt.
That sound about right?
//
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
Correct unpowered it is sort of open in that the only thing holding it on the seat
is a light pressure spring. So if you have any significant oil pressure it will lift if
off the seat. Once the PCM starts to modulate the ground (PWM) or sink current
the valve is held on (closed) the seat more.
You may get a hiss even with the valve closed from aur leaking past the shaft seal
of the pump or a few other places. When you come over this weekend remind me
and I can explain it better.
EDIT :
I added the 2007~2007 engine electronics controls. The 2005 should be the same
or very close. If you need or want me to I can up load the 2005 diagram.
Maybe I'll just do that a bit later tonight.
is a light pressure spring. So if you have any significant oil pressure it will lift if
off the seat. Once the PCM starts to modulate the ground (PWM) or sink current
the valve is held on (closed) the seat more.
You may get a hiss even with the valve closed from aur leaking past the shaft seal
of the pump or a few other places. When you come over this weekend remind me
and I can explain it better.
EDIT :
I added the 2007~2007 engine electronics controls. The 2005 should be the same
or very close. If you need or want me to I can up load the 2005 diagram.
Maybe I'll just do that a bit later tonight.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,952
Likes: 117
From: Upper Left Coast
Correct unpowered it is sort of open in that the only thing holding it on the seat
is a light pressure spring. So if you have any significant oil pressure it will lift if
off the seat. Once the PCM starts to modulate the ground (PWM) or sink current
the valve is held on (closed) the seat more.
You may get a hiss even with the valve closed from aur leaking past the shaft seal
of the pump or a few other places. When you come over this weekend remind me
and I can explain it better.
EDIT :
I added the 2007~2007 engine electronics controls. The 2005 should be the same
or very close. If you need or want me to I can up load the 2005 diagram.
Maybe I'll just do that a bit later tonight.
is a light pressure spring. So if you have any significant oil pressure it will lift if
off the seat. Once the PCM starts to modulate the ground (PWM) or sink current
the valve is held on (closed) the seat more.
You may get a hiss even with the valve closed from aur leaking past the shaft seal
of the pump or a few other places. When you come over this weekend remind me
and I can explain it better.
EDIT :
I added the 2007~2007 engine electronics controls. The 2005 should be the same
or very close. If you need or want me to I can up load the 2005 diagram.
Maybe I'll just do that a bit later tonight.
The question then becomes will an unpowered IPR "leak" enough to prevent the engine from starting (and NOT damage the IPR screen or anything else) if it's unpowered during cranking.
If it works like It appears it does, it seems one would only need to place a single pole/single throw switch in the PCM side of the IPR circuit to prevent it from closing under power and prevent the HPO system from producing enough pressure to start the engine.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
My Nissan got stolen and when I got it back I wired a hidden momentary switch under dash that when released routed the starter wire from key directly to the truck horn so anyone trying to use an old key or screwdriver would be greeted with a horn blast. I need to do that on the ford but this time I will also install a second horn under dash so they really get a good jolt lol.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
My Nissan got stolen and when I got it back I wired a hidden momentary switch under dash that when released routed the starter wire from key directly to the truck horn so anyone trying to use an old key or screwdriver would be greeted with a horn blast. I need to do that on the ford but this time I will also install a second horn under dash so they really get a good jolt lol.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Piezo-P...QAAOSwux5YPfvi
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,456
Likes: 128
From: Shasta County, CA
Be sure to look at the pain generators. Make things as unpleasant as you can.
Mini Piezo "Pain Generator" Hideaway Under Dash Alarm Siren 115DB | eBay
Mini Piezo "Pain Generator" Hideaway Under Dash Alarm Siren 115DB | eBay
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Do you know if you have a remote start im guessing it will not start unless the ravelco is connected?
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