Big Decision...
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Big Decision...
So, greetings everyone! I am new to the site/forum. I appreciate all the good material that's around.
I have a big decision to make. Just bought a 2004 Gold Excursion for a great deal. Body is immaculate but motor is "shot" (6.0L). The #1 injector had some impact to it (smashed/cracked tip). No idea what caused it, but I have to make a decision on what route to take to get the thing back on the road. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am considering two options. Both obviously involve pulling the motor.
Option #1: Rebuild 6.0L
The motor has 190,000 miles on it. At this point I don't know how extensive the damage is, but I am afraid of this option quite frankly. It seems to me that by the time it is all over, the bill will be astronomical even if I do the bulk of the work myself (with help from friends who do this sort of thing on Friday nights).
Option #2: 12V Cummins engine swap
I have a 1994 5.9L 12V Dodge Cummins motor with 190,000 miles sitting in the driveway. The truck works fine, but isn't suitable to the family anymore and has some major body damage. This has become a pretty popular option these days. I could sell the Dodge for $4,500 tomorrow and put it into the 6.0L, or I could pony up the cash for the conversion kit and do the swap.
I know this isn't a clear cut decision and personal biases certainly come into play, but does anyone have any ideas on the cause of the smashed injector tip? Unfortunately, I don't have much information to give about the moments leading up to the failure. Should I do the swap? I am actually quite fond of the 6.0 - I have one in my other vehicle - 2003 F-350. This happen to anyone else?
Many Thanks!
Last edited by nodesy; Jan 11, 2014 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Add photo
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,880
Likes: 3,395
From: Ohio
If you do the swap, you'll still have a 190,000 mile engine in the truck and it will cost probably thousands to retrofit it into the truck.
If you go with the rebuild, you will have a fresh engine for probably no more money invested.
I would think a truck with a fresh 6.0 would be worth far more than a frankentruck with a tired 5.9.
I will be the first to admit I know NOTHING about diesels.
If you go with the rebuild, you will have a fresh engine for probably no more money invested.
I would think a truck with a fresh 6.0 would be worth far more than a frankentruck with a tired 5.9.
I will be the first to admit I know NOTHING about diesels.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Go to 6.0L site for this question. Maybe the motor isn't shot yet, the people on 6.0L will lead you to the correct diagnose on what really wrong with the engine and go from there. Maybe you only need to change the injector and re O-ring the others injectors...
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,821
Likes: 93
From: Manteca,Ca
Thanks Stewart, Please do not try to start the truck, the Inject tip is in the cylinder and could / damage the piston and walls, if you have the experience to pull that head you will find the tip smashed into the piston and hopefully no damage to the wall , head needs to come off. hang in here the guys will chime in for the rest of the story
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City MO
I've repaired that exact situation before. It's not as bad as it sounds. I've heard of people tearing the engine apart and picking n choosing what parts are replaced. Leave this old,, buy this new,, buy this aftermarket,, cut a corner here,, ect. The best,, most beneficial plan would be to get a total overhaul kit for around $2k from Tousley. Get a set of lifters for 260. Possibly a cam for 500. At least one injector (but if a tip broke,, I'd prob replace them all,, it'd suk to rebuild and find out another one breaks). The last one I saw had unleaded ran through it. It just happened to only kill one,, but whatever went through the offending injector,, also went through all the others. If you are gonna do the job,, why mess around,,, do it right. But if you tear it down,, napa has freeze plugs that are deeper that oem. I think it's 38mm. The overhaul kit is actually a $$$ maker. I buy them to use as Inventory. It's a $2k investment that can be parted out for almost $4k. Just some thoughts.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 256
From: Woodbridge, Ontario, CA
So, greetings everyone! I am new to the site/forum. I appreciate all the good material that's around.
I have a big decision to make. Just bought a 2004 Gold Excursion for a great deal. Body is immaculate but motor is "shot" (6.0L). The #1 injector had some impact to it (smashed/cracked tip). No idea what caused it, but I have to make a decision on what route to take to get the thing back on the road. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am considering two options. Both obviously involve pulling the motor.
Option #1: Rebuild 6.0L
The motor has 190,000 miles on it. At this point I don't know how extensive the damage is, but I am afraid of this option quite frankly. It seems to me that by the time it is all over, the bill will be astronomical even if I do the bulk of the work myself (with help from friends who do this sort of thing on Friday nights).
What is your budget going to allow? If there really is injector tip/piston damage done, another option would be to source out a known good used 6.0 engine from another 2004 truck to plunk in and be done with it.
Option #2: 12V Cummins engine swap
I have a 1994 5.9L 12V Dodge Cummins motor with 190,000 miles sitting in the driveway. The truck works fine, but isn't suitable to the family anymore and has some major body damage. This has become a pretty popular option these days. I could sell the Dodge for $4,500 tomorrow and put it into the 6.0L, or I could pony up the cash for the conversion kit and do the swap.
Am I really reading this? I can't even believe you would even consider hacking up your newly acquired ride to plunk in another drivetrain that is ten years older, and therefore not emissions compliant to 2004 standards. This is almost like asking if I should install a carbureted 5.0L (302) pushrod V8 into a vehicle where a 4.6L SEFI SOHC V8 is supposed to reside because I'm too intimidated to wrench on a modern fuel injected overhead cam V8.
I know this isn't a clear cut decision and personal biases certainly come into play, but does anyone have any ideas on the cause of the smashed injector tip? Unfortunately, I don't have much information to give about the moments leading up to the failure. Should I do the swap? I am actually quite fond of the 6.0 - I have one in my other vehicle - 2003 F-350. This happen to anyone else?
I will try to get some pics uploaded.
Many Thanks!
I have a big decision to make. Just bought a 2004 Gold Excursion for a great deal. Body is immaculate but motor is "shot" (6.0L). The #1 injector had some impact to it (smashed/cracked tip). No idea what caused it, but I have to make a decision on what route to take to get the thing back on the road. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am considering two options. Both obviously involve pulling the motor.
Option #1: Rebuild 6.0L
The motor has 190,000 miles on it. At this point I don't know how extensive the damage is, but I am afraid of this option quite frankly. It seems to me that by the time it is all over, the bill will be astronomical even if I do the bulk of the work myself (with help from friends who do this sort of thing on Friday nights).
What is your budget going to allow? If there really is injector tip/piston damage done, another option would be to source out a known good used 6.0 engine from another 2004 truck to plunk in and be done with it.
Option #2: 12V Cummins engine swap
I have a 1994 5.9L 12V Dodge Cummins motor with 190,000 miles sitting in the driveway. The truck works fine, but isn't suitable to the family anymore and has some major body damage. This has become a pretty popular option these days. I could sell the Dodge for $4,500 tomorrow and put it into the 6.0L, or I could pony up the cash for the conversion kit and do the swap.
Am I really reading this? I can't even believe you would even consider hacking up your newly acquired ride to plunk in another drivetrain that is ten years older, and therefore not emissions compliant to 2004 standards. This is almost like asking if I should install a carbureted 5.0L (302) pushrod V8 into a vehicle where a 4.6L SEFI SOHC V8 is supposed to reside because I'm too intimidated to wrench on a modern fuel injected overhead cam V8.
I know this isn't a clear cut decision and personal biases certainly come into play, but does anyone have any ideas on the cause of the smashed injector tip? Unfortunately, I don't have much information to give about the moments leading up to the failure. Should I do the swap? I am actually quite fond of the 6.0 - I have one in my other vehicle - 2003 F-350. This happen to anyone else?
I will try to get some pics uploaded.
Many Thanks!
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Budget for project
m-chan68,
Thanks for your feedback. In response to your questions:
a. my budget is "as low as possible". As I mentioned, I can sell the Dodge for $4,500. In addition, I am willing to spend a few more thousand if I have to.
b. Not too worried about the emissions issue. I plan to do the EGR delete/oil cooler during this project.
c. I am also not too worried about the age of the drivetrain as long as it is going to be reliable, which the 12V has certainly proved to be. There is the same mileage on both motors.
At the end of the day, I am looking for the most practical solution. I am looking for longevity more than anything.
By the way, I uploaded a pic of the injector.
Thanks again!
Thanks for your feedback. In response to your questions:
a. my budget is "as low as possible". As I mentioned, I can sell the Dodge for $4,500. In addition, I am willing to spend a few more thousand if I have to.
b. Not too worried about the emissions issue. I plan to do the EGR delete/oil cooler during this project.
c. I am also not too worried about the age of the drivetrain as long as it is going to be reliable, which the 12V has certainly proved to be. There is the same mileage on both motors.
At the end of the day, I am looking for the most practical solution. I am looking for longevity more than anything.
By the way, I uploaded a pic of the injector.
Thanks again!
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 7
From: South Weber, Utah
m-chan68,
Thanks for your feedback. In response to your questions:
a. my budget is "as low as possible". As I mentioned, I can sell the Dodge for $4,500. In addition, I am willing to spend a few more thousand if I have to.
b. Not too worried about the emissions issue. I plan to do the EGR delete/oil cooler during this project.
c. I am also not too worried about the age of the drivetrain as long as it is going to be reliable, which the 12V has certainly proved to be. There is the same mileage on both motors.
At the end of the day, I am looking for the most practical solution. I am looking for longevity more than anything.
By the way, I uploaded a pic of the injector.
Thanks again!
Thanks for your feedback. In response to your questions:
a. my budget is "as low as possible". As I mentioned, I can sell the Dodge for $4,500. In addition, I am willing to spend a few more thousand if I have to.
b. Not too worried about the emissions issue. I plan to do the EGR delete/oil cooler during this project.
c. I am also not too worried about the age of the drivetrain as long as it is going to be reliable, which the 12V has certainly proved to be. There is the same mileage on both motors.
At the end of the day, I am looking for the most practical solution. I am looking for longevity more than anything.
By the way, I uploaded a pic of the injector.
Thanks again!
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,241
Likes: 155
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
I woud say you don't have enough info to decide to repair or replace. A partial tear down of the current engine and careful inspection is in order and will add little expense to to budget.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
I absolutely agree with Rusty. You need a lot more diagnosis before you decide to just replace a complete motor. You can do a LOT of repairs for way less than $4500.