Big Decision...
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
So I am assuming the .020 bore is not being recommended. Asheville engines claims that mine would be the 13th engine this month and the .020 over bore is their most popular. So there must be quite a few out there.
At the end of the day, this vehicle will be primarily used for hauling my growing family around. I DON'T want it in the shop every few months draining my bank account.
At the end of the day, this vehicle will be primarily used for hauling my growing family around. I DON'T want it in the shop every few months draining my bank account.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
So I am assuming the .020 bore is not being recommended. Asheville engines claims that mine would be the 13th engine this month and the .020 over bore is their most popular. So there must be quite a few out there.
At the end of the day, this vehicle will be primarily used for hauling my growing family around. I DON'T want it in the shop every few months draining my bank account.
At the end of the day, this vehicle will be primarily used for hauling my growing family around. I DON'T want it in the shop every few months draining my bank account.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 436
Likes: 1
Thanks for the curious reply. I am not sure why people get so hostile on here. Even the moderator got a few kicks in. LOL.
Again, I am not 6.0 expert. Just posting my experience and what I have learned (I hope) from listening to others and reading).
What I claim is you can mill the heads until they are out of Ford spec. That number may be 8/1000 or 16/1000. One does not know until the heads are mill and then measured.
Well, if you recall, I had a Dyno test run on the engine. It was rev up to 3900 rpms and it put out 380 hp with no issues and the Degass Bottle cap did not puke.
I posted the Dyno graphs on this site. I am not sure if such counts.
No valve work was done. The heads were milled, nothing more.
I know. I read that post and you guys did a very good thing. Good people here just a little more sensitive than I am used to.
Perhaps I need to endeavor to sugar coat may comments more.
Well, to be honest, I do not know enough to be nervous about 14/1000. I just know the heads are still working.
IF you guys had not raised a red flag I would not even know to consider the question.
All I can report is what I have had done and the results.
Aw heck,,, screw the numbers,, just cut the crap outta it until its flat. That's what I got outta this thread.
What I claim is you can mill the heads until they are out of Ford spec. That number may be 8/1000 or 16/1000. One does not know until the heads are mill and then measured.
Although,, I'd really like to see a video of your degas pressure Monty under wot. If the heads were warped that bad,,,
I posted the Dyno graphs on this site. I am not sure if such counts.
the block can't be flat,, I took one in and had 6 cut off the heads,, and the block took three to flatten out. But that was a total rebuild. And that one took 9 total. I stayed under 35 piston protrusion too. Quick question,,, did you get a valve grind done too?? I have cut multiple sets of heads without any grind done,,, The 8 number applies to no valve work done. And I actually stand there with the head as its being cut. I put a couple videos on here a couple days ago.
As for Internet chatter. Ask Val n Shannon if we are just keyboard junkies. The 8 suggestion can be applied WITHOUT CONCERN to any unmilled head and block.
Perhaps I need to endeavor to sugar coat may comments more.
The 14 number,,, can you honestly say that you are completely confident in it? Because the 8 number is a definite,,, set in stone number. IT CAN BE DONE!!!! I've done nine,, and as customers come in,, I will keep checking,,, but if a head needs 14,,,, I'm suggesting replacement. I will put them on,,, but if there interference,,, I'd make darn sure the customer knows BEFORE I bolt them on that I can't guarantee it's good. Maybe it'd b good,,, maybe not?? But I am NOT gambling on a customers truck when there's even a little chance it's gonna be a problem. I would gamble on my truck,, if I had to. But I would have to go with the definite answer on customers trucks tho.
IF you guys had not raised a red flag I would not even know to consider the question.
All I can report is what I have had done and the results.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 29,380
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From: Central Coast of CA
I even started my first post directed at you with "No disrespect intended...."
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; Jan 17, 2014 at 01:35 PM. Reason: corrected a word
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City MO
There can be no puking and still have high pressures. Hence if the coolant level is kept low. I'm talking about a guage plumbed into the coolant system during a dyno or even just a wot. I'm saying this cause I'm interested,, not cause I'm trying to be an azz. Did you not do any milling on the block??
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 436
Likes: 1
There can be no puking and still have high pressures. Hence if the coolant level is kept low. I'm talking about a guage plumbed into the coolant system during a dyno or even just a wot. I'm saying this cause I'm interested,, not cause I'm trying to be an azz. Did you not do any milling on the block??
I will have to make a tester to check the degas pressure.
Is there a particular place to purchase the pressure gauge? I guess I need one that goes from 0 - 20 psi if they make them.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 436
Likes: 1
No milling done to the block. The block was cleaned and tested with a straight edge as was not warped. Claims he has never seen one that was warped.
xFord Diesel mechanic. All he does all day long is work on Ford Diesel engines 6.0, 6.4, and 7.3.
Owns a 6.0 diesel himself and it is a hot rod. I should have taken pictures. His truck has heads that were milled 16/1000. He runs it hard and has turbo mods and tunes that generates significantly more hp (and associated head pressures) than my truck. Dyno tested to put out 550-ish HP at 2800 rpm.
He claims one can typically mill a head up to 0.020 (20/1000) inches.
He also has several engines out there (for years now) with heads milled more than mine and they are still running strong with no issues.
I am not making this stuff up and I can only report what I have been told as I do none of the work myself and make no measurements to verify the numbers.
xFord Diesel mechanic. All he does all day long is work on Ford Diesel engines 6.0, 6.4, and 7.3.
Owns a 6.0 diesel himself and it is a hot rod. I should have taken pictures. His truck has heads that were milled 16/1000. He runs it hard and has turbo mods and tunes that generates significantly more hp (and associated head pressures) than my truck. Dyno tested to put out 550-ish HP at 2800 rpm.
He claims one can typically mill a head up to 0.020 (20/1000) inches.
He also has several engines out there (for years now) with heads milled more than mine and they are still running strong with no issues.
I am not making this stuff up and I can only report what I have been told as I do none of the work myself and make no measurements to verify the numbers.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
From: Shelbyville, Indiana
So, greetings everyone! I am new to the site/forum. I appreciate all the good material that's around.
I have a big decision to make. Just bought a 2004 Gold Excursion for a great deal. Body is immaculate but motor is "shot" (6.0L). The #1 injector had some impact to it (smashed/cracked tip). No idea what caused it, but I have to make a decision on what route to take to get the thing back on the road. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am considering two options. Both obviously involve pulling the motor.
Option #1: Rebuild 6.0L
The motor has 190,000 miles on it. At this point I don't know how extensive the damage is, but I am afraid of this option quite frankly. It seems to me that by the time it is all over, the bill will be astronomical even if I do the bulk of the work myself (with help from friends who do this sort of thing on Friday nights).
Option #2: 12V Cummins engine swap
I have a 1994 5.9L 12V Dodge Cummins motor with 190,000 miles sitting in the driveway. The truck works fine, but isn't suitable to the family anymore and has some major body damage. This has become a pretty popular option these days. I could sell the Dodge for $4,500 tomorrow and put it into the 6.0L, or I could pony up the cash for the conversion kit and do the swap.
I know this isn't a clear cut decision and personal biases certainly come into play, but does anyone have any ideas on the cause of the smashed injector tip? Unfortunately, I don't have much information to give about the moments leading up to the failure. Should I do the swap? I am actually quite fond of the 6.0 - I have one in my other vehicle - 2003 F-350. This happen to anyone else?
Many Thanks!
You guys have completely hijacked this thread!
Back to the OP's questions:
If it were me and it was NOT a daily driver I would completely tear down the 6.0L and have the bare block inspected to Ford Print. If it is good/salvageable I'd take the steps to rebuild it.
Set a budget!!
Determine EXACTLY what you want the final product to be...ie high HP or high torque, drag racer, pulling truck, whatever. Then talk to builders at the BIG diesel shops (Scheid Diesel, Stricklands, Eddings, run6.0run...etc...this list has a bunch of names that could be on it) about what you need to do to achieve that plan.
Purchase the parts and start putting it together yourself.
Ford OEM rebuilds are expensive...quality high performance rebuilds are expensive...you will get what you pay for...cheap and quality don't go hand in hand.
Another thing is make the choice and follow through with it, don't give up in the middle. That will cost you more than anything...
Last thing...HAVE FUN! If you're having fun then any choice is a good choice!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,241
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From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
That makes me think of a sign I've seen in several shops over the years.
WE CAN DO 3 TYPES OF WORK.
CHEAP, QUICK, AND GOOD.
PICK ANY TWO.
A GOOD, CHEAP JOB WONT BE QUICK.
A QUICK, GOOD JOB WONT BE CHEAP.
AND A CHEAP, QUICK JOB WONT BE GOOD.
WE CAN DO 3 TYPES OF WORK.
CHEAP, QUICK, AND GOOD.
PICK ANY TWO.
A GOOD, CHEAP JOB WONT BE QUICK.
A QUICK, GOOD JOB WONT BE CHEAP.
AND A CHEAP, QUICK JOB WONT BE GOOD.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 74
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Splash67 -
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
From: Shelbyville, Indiana
Splash67 -
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
I wish I would have had the money to do the wholesale changes I want to mine before I got rid of our third vehicle, but the money to work on Monster actually came from the sale of my Chevy "back-up" vehicle.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Splash67 -
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
I see I have the same make/model/color Excursion that you have. Except yours is running.
Just heard back from local ford shop (one that did diagnosis). He came back and recommended the full assembly at $14,600. Said I might as well buy all new components instead of spending money on labor for the short block.
So, that is not an option. Way over budget. This IS going to be a daily driver. Ford is out of the question. At this point, I am pulling the motor myself no matter what route I go. I guess we will get that done and go from there.
By the way - pull the cab or no?
