The point being the alternator is turned on or excited thru the "I" wire with key-on.

Whether the alternator is keeping up or not isn't in question. But some here need to understand the 6G isn't a quick start alternator either.

To confuse output on the positive battery cable versus what is being sent thru the excite wire are 2 different things and only shows the small case 6G is vastly under-performing for the task at hand.

To throw a meter on the charge cable and go "yep, the alternator isn't being told to charge yet" and not checking the "I" wire is asinine and very uninformative of what the real problem is.

Josh

 

So you are saying that if an alternator is generating to the maximum extent of its capabilities, then just because it isn't "keeping up" that would cause it to have essentially zero amperage measured through the B+ wire??? That doesn't make sense to me. If it is generating, then current should be flowing.

 

Prove to me in writing that something keeps the alternator turned off until the glow plugs cycle.

No "hearsay" or my brother heard from some parts changer that his uncle thought he heard from some hack the alternator stays off until the plugs cycle.

You must not ever run winches or on-board welders huh?

Think about it...

I have read 2 PDF's now from Ford that both say the alternator is operating as soon as the engine starts, no matter what.

Josh

 

BTW fulthotl -

(According to Ford):
At start-up you can get up to 200 A draw at first for the glow plug system alone, but then should stabilize around 10-12 Amps draw per glow plug.

 

Do you know how to discuss and debate an issue without throwing out juvenille challenges or googling words like asinine??

Think about it - lol. I asked you a question on the B+ circuit as it pertains to an excited and generating alternator. What you said does not make sense to me.

I will readily admit that electrical systems are NOT anywhere close to a strong suit for me. However, I do want the data to make sense and pdf documents are only part of the puzzle.

I saw no amperage for around 90 seconds (now that is a slow 6G lol). So did others. Where does that fit in the explanantion? I am truly interested in the correct answer (and not about winches or on-board welders)

 

The fact was you were trying to change the question around. My thoughts (and Ford's for that matter) are in conflict with the hearsay that is consistently re-written in regards to the "I" circuit and engine start.

You aren't answering to the contrary with written proof.

The 6G is commercially rated at 110 amps peak, but in reality is far less than the old small case 95 amp 3G. If you have 120 amp load that is required and yet the alternator can only muster 40 amps at idle what are you going to expect? Of course you'll see a deficit of 80 amps until the loads turn off.

Josh

 

My ammeter does not measure "deficit amps" - lol

I hear you on written proof. It is helpful to have it. These kinds of "conflicting information" situations are frustrating. Cheezit has stated that there are errors in Ford documentation. He is one of the authorities here regarding Ford. I have no reason to blindly believe that everything Ford has written is true.

The question is the same - hasn't been changed. It is not unreasonable to expect that the data matches the explanation. Maybe someone else can post up something useful and pertinent.

 

for some reason, you seem quite angry. you can be as mad as you
need to be.

you really don't need written proof. what you need is an F series
truck, so you can get to the damn alternator, which you can't do
in an E series van.

could i get to the alternator, i would simply clamp the ammeter
around the output, and see what happens when the alternator
starts spinning.

i don't need to read all the PDF if i can read the ammeter.

alternators can be self exciting, or externally excited.
externally excited uses a constant voltage from an external
power source to power the field winding.

then you vary the armature winding voltage to regulate the output.
voltage is generated when a coil of wire cuts thru a magnetic field.

the amount of DC current flow coming from an alternator with
a diode bridge will be affected by the following:

the connected load.
if charging batteries, the difference of potential between
the alternator output, and the battery static voltage.
the ampacity of the diode bridges.

before we all get our undies bunched, is there someone on here
with an F series truck and a clamp on ammeter who can go out
in the morning, and clamp the biatch on the output wire and tell
us when it starts producing current flow, and how much?

 

You can clamp at the rear of the alternator, mid way or right at the battery. Doesn't matter, it is essentially one giant cable that all terminate at the positive post of the passenger battery.

Josh

 

not in an E series van, it isn't. output of alternator goes to binding
post on starter motor, then up to main fuse block, and back
to battery boxes on outside frame rail ahead of right rear wheel.

so for me to measure the output amperage of my alternator, i'd
have to clamp between the alternator, and the starter motor.

easier said than done.

you can't get there from anywhere. you can't even test the
alternator without removing it from the vehicle. you can't
reach the field connections.

but now, i'm curious. i'll see if there is a place i can clamp on
in the morning. if there is, i'll post what readings i get.

 

Fluke makes some really handy $$ toys and tools
I picked up this
TIF 2700 Electrical System Analyzer. Electrical Charging System Analyzer
The 2700 does current and I was thinking about doing the same tests you just did with
your new tool.
I have it's little brother also.It only tells charge state and voltage plus voltage line drop
I will be selling it some time if anyone is interested
165 Amp for the most part is going to the glow plugs.

Sean

 

Where do I find the output wire of this "biatch"...never seen one of those on my truck...LOL!

 

If you connect a garden hose to a spigot and turn it on, unless there are leaks where do you think the water is going to go?

In this case the garden hose is the electrical cables and the spigot is the alternator.

You can clamp anywhere and get the output of the alternator.

Josh

 

chargingsystem.mp4 video by psdtech - Photobucket



<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid547.photobucket.com/albums/hh456/psdtech/chargingsystem.mp4">

well i figured it would be easer to go out and just show it done on my truck. so this means one of 3 things.
1. my truck is broke
2 your truck is broke
3. a flaw in someones test methods.
I wish I knew how to set up a poll in a thread


also as a note I did review the time the gpcm timer takes to shut off. per the workshop it is tied to eot,baro and B+ state of charge

 

That's nuts.

With that, is Ford trying to save the alternator or glow plugs?

Josh