HPFP failures
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 5
From: Maryland
The .pdf doesn't say at what point the pump fails, but they only graph out to 2000 hrs on the minimum acceptable level. That is on average less than 70,000 miles. That just doesn't seem like much. If these pumps are that sensitive, it's going to be like the old rotary injection pumps of the 70s with a rebuild every 50,000 miles. The only problem is when the expensive enough HPFP fails, it usually takes the even more expensive injectors with it.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
And expensive they are. MSRP for an injector is $524.26 per injector, and Parts Guy Ed sells them for $408.92 each.
The HPFP has an MSRP of $1089.97 and Ed sells them for $850.18.
Fuel rails have an MSRP of $370.15 and $210.05 for the Left and right, respectively.
Not cheap stuff!
The HPFP has an MSRP of $1089.97 and Ed sells them for $850.18.
Fuel rails have an MSRP of $370.15 and $210.05 for the Left and right, respectively.
Not cheap stuff!
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 305
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
The .pdf doesn't say at what point the pump fails, but they only graph out to 2000 hrs on the minimum acceptable level. That is on average less than 70,000 miles. That just doesn't seem like much. If these pumps are that sensitive, it's going to be like the old rotary injection pumps of the 70s with a rebuild every 50,000 miles. The only problem is when the expensive enough HPFP fails, it usually takes the even more expensive injectors with it.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
From: Virginia beach, VA
So the pump isn't really the problem here. $850 is at least doable. Now $3200+ for injectors is a little ridiculous. I think (hope) that it is because the Piezo injector is still pretty new. In a couple years maybe the price will come down. Otherwise, it looks like I'll be driving this 6.0 forever lol
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
You guys are right and that is indeed the final take-away. I'm going to look into a supplemental water separator. This will not be a casual mod though. It needs to be approved by Ford before I do it. I would not want a warranty issue on my truck or anyone elses due to information I put out there.
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
Likes: 28
From: Southern Ontario
Epic ... looked at a couple of separators a while ago including AirDog and others. I don't see Ford approving any of them. As a matter of fact I would bet they will all become the scapegoat for any issues that arise. Some of them have their own lift pump and none of them would integrate the Ford WIF alert. On top of that any one used would effect the fuel pressure in some way. I share your thought on adding something to differ an issue but just need to figure out what that is.
I think the important thing to take away from the graph is the impact of the lubricity in the fuel on the HPFP and not the exact hours operated. We do not know the test conditions the pumps were operated in. For example the pumps could have been run at full pressure for the hours shown which is not real world.
I think the important thing to take away from the graph is the impact of the lubricity in the fuel on the HPFP and not the exact hours operated. We do not know the test conditions the pumps were operated in. For example the pumps could have been run at full pressure for the hours shown which is not real world.
Tuned
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
Likes: 28
From: Southern Ontario
One of the links I found discussing fuel filters ...
PF7977 really is a GREAT fuel filter.... Other filter data too... - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
I also found another CAT filter that looks good. It is not the one in the above link. I will post a link to it when I find it again.
PF7977 really is a GREAT fuel filter.... Other filter data too... - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
I also found another CAT filter that looks good. It is not the one in the above link. I will post a link to it when I find it again.
Tuned
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
Likes: 28
From: Southern Ontario
Here it is. Question I have is where do you insert these in the fuel path and what is the impact on the fuel pressure.
http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386245/7/PEHJ0082-02.pdf
http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386245/7/PEHJ0082-02.pdf
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 60
Theory for your brain to think this morning:
How do you know the HPFP is about to go? I mean, other than "forecasting" it based on miles, hours, gallons of fuel run through, etc.
Is there any indicator? Is there any inspection that can be performed to determine the status? It seems to me if there's corrosion, and that leads to these failures, there should be a way to monitor the corrosion for early detection of a problem, is there not?
How do you know the HPFP is about to go? I mean, other than "forecasting" it based on miles, hours, gallons of fuel run through, etc.
Is there any indicator? Is there any inspection that can be performed to determine the status? It seems to me if there's corrosion, and that leads to these failures, there should be a way to monitor the corrosion for early detection of a problem, is there not?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 5
From: Maryland
Steve,
I don't think we are dealing with corrosion issues 90% of the time. The root problem is an extremely high pressure pump with very tight tolerances that requires a level of lubrication not available from most diesel fuel easily available to us. Water also causes destruction in these pumps, but more from increased wear than actual corrosion.
If the pump is self destructing due to a lack of lubrication there are no easy telltale signs. You would have to periodically disassemble part of the fuel system to check for metal shavings in the system. The big question that we will not know the answer to for a few more years is will it at some point make sense to replace the HPFP as a preventative measure in order to prevent a much greater cost if it fails?
I don't think we are dealing with corrosion issues 90% of the time. The root problem is an extremely high pressure pump with very tight tolerances that requires a level of lubrication not available from most diesel fuel easily available to us. Water also causes destruction in these pumps, but more from increased wear than actual corrosion.
If the pump is self destructing due to a lack of lubrication there are no easy telltale signs. You would have to periodically disassemble part of the fuel system to check for metal shavings in the system. The big question that we will not know the answer to for a few more years is will it at some point make sense to replace the HPFP as a preventative measure in order to prevent a much greater cost if it fails?
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 305
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
I wonder what is the normal failure mode for the pump after x hours with y lubricity? Does it just crater and spew particles down to the injectors?
What about the 100,000 mile warranty, I don't recall the HPFP being a normal wear and tear item? If 520 hfrr is the norm, does it make any sense for the engineers to use a part with. 1500 hr. life?
What about the 100,000 mile warranty, I don't recall the HPFP being a normal wear and tear item? If 520 hfrr is the norm, does it make any sense for the engineers to use a part with. 1500 hr. life?
