E brake with disc conversion?
#46
09-02-2010, 07:25 PM
Something interesting regarding the Caddy cals.: OEM they are mounted driver's side toward front of vehicle, passenger side towards rear of vehicle. If you don't do that, then one of your bleeders is on the bottom of the cal., making it a PIA to bleed.
So I'm going to mount them the same as OEM.
Also, if you buy them off the car, don't think GM marked them R & L. Left and right cals are both factory marked R, for rear.
So I'm going to mount them the same as OEM.
Also, if you buy them off the car, don't think GM marked them R & L. Left and right cals are both factory marked R, for rear.
#47
09-02-2010, 07:38 PM
The stock proportioning valve is for a rear drum setup. I'm pretty sure as I recall they are made to allow 3-5 psi kind a thing to the rear brake lines as it holds a tiny bit of pressure to pads as it takes more movement to engage brakes over discs. I tried no prop valve and rears locked up. Your best to plumb in your wilwood.
As for the valve failing.... Always keep your truck in gear or park either way. If the valve did fail as for a standard your truck will still hold somwhat until it creeps back in small increments as the compression on motor is the only thing holding it back but at the same time that takes alot of hold back pressure on valve as well.
Never use it on a hill left in nuetral unattended for a long period!
As for the valve failing.... Always keep your truck in gear or park either way. If the valve did fail as for a standard your truck will still hold somwhat until it creeps back in small increments as the compression on motor is the only thing holding it back but at the same time that takes alot of hold back pressure on valve as well.
Never use it on a hill left in nuetral unattended for a long period!
Josh
#48
09-02-2010, 07:55 PM
Postmaster
ok well thats good to know. I thought the prop valve had something to do with that as well.... Anyways my master is from a 99 f350 with a hydroboost. The bore on the master is 1 3/8 " very big as its setup for disc brakes as you need a bigger bore size now to push more fluid with a single stroke of the pedal to the now much bigger caliper to the rears vs a tiny wheel cylinder on drums. The bigger the bore in your master you actially lose brake pressure force but its regained(and by alot) when you install hydroboost especially with a better powersteering pump like the modded saginaw one I run. The fluid resevoir on the master is massive too taking about to small bottles of fluid.
#49
09-02-2010, 11:22 PM
#50
09-03-2010, 11:55 AM
I thought you might like to know that there's a great article on Classic Broncos about the hydro boost brake system, and the saginaw (sp?) steering pump. It tells what vehicle came with them oem. and what you need to swap.
#51
09-03-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't give a rat's *** about Classic Broncos.com.
Josh
#53
09-03-2010, 05:52 PM
Lead Driver
This thread is dealing with people putting rear disks on and therefore loosing the stock type e-brake...
As for what master - some people leave the stock one, some put on the F-350 one, and others do other things. I'm using the master that came on the hydroboost unit I bought (off 2001 stupid-doodie)
As for what master - some people leave the stock one, some put on the F-350 one, and others do other things. I'm using the master that came on the hydroboost unit I bought (off 2001 stupid-doodie)
#54
09-03-2010, 07:16 PM
You know what, dude? I posted that in the friendly spirit of this forum. I'm reminded of a quote by P.T. Barnum: 'There's an *** born to fit every saddle.'
#55
09-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Postmaster
nothing too special about pump. I had to modify bracket to bolt it up and I put on a dual belt pulley to match my custom 4 groove crank pulley allowing me to run 2 belts on my pump for reliablity and 2 on 160 amp alternator as the alternator shop said its best to have 2 belts or it will slip with this big an alternator. The mods were simply unscrewing the valve on backside and drilling out the center hole just a tad more to allow more flow and psi. I then bought a professional Kent moore powersteering tester and it tested out to be at 1500psi bang on. You could go out and spend $200 on a "super pump" or do this as the advertise 1500 psi.
heres the link to doing it yourself
powersteering
heres the link to doing it yourself
powersteering
#57
09-04-2010, 08:44 PM
Photos el dorado ebrake
I took apart my 77 cadillac calipers which I found at the boneyard. Once apart I cleaned them and ordered a seal kit from A...zone. It was $6.00 for each 'kit'. At home I noticed that the seal on the ebrake clutch is not included. I tracked it down in another kit from Napa. The price for 1 seal? $7.00! yeap, the kit jumped from $6.00 to $13 per.
That made me wonder. Do the inexpernsive rebuilders even mess with the ebrake clutch seal? Could that be one of the reasons these Caddy Calipers so often fail, and have a bad reputation? People want to save a buck, and never know what they didn't get. You can see the seal in the photo below. The Napa part # you want is 937. But even with that, you will still need two extra copper washers. Next to my hand is the seal that goes in the groove at my thumb.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010391.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010391.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I spent the better part of a day fiddling with the ebrake clutch mechanism, trying to understand it. You can see below the sprocket like gear that keeps the cals adjusted. When the ebrake is set, it turns the screw which pushes the piston and locks the brakes. But when the ebrake is released, the gear can spin or ratchet to the next tooth as the pads wear, keeping your cal adjusted. The black shaft I have my finger on is the ebrake shaft, which has the cable arm bolted to one end. See how it screws out and pushes the piston, which applies the pads to the rotor?
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010392.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010392.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
So, if the ebrake is not used pretty often, the brakes could get out of adjustment, and therefore the ebrake stops working. Tip: leave the ebrake off until pads are installed, and the cal. is sitting on the rotor. Then you need to 're-clock' the ebrake arm, after ratcheting the pads together until they are just touching the rotor. Then move the ebrake arm to the best position for maximum travel.
Note: GM installed these cals with the driver side cal on the engine side of the rear end. The passenger side cal is mounted on the rear bumper side of the rear end. If you mount them both on forward of or both behind the rear end, then one of the bleeder fittings will be at the bottom of the cal., making it a bit fun to bleed, but certainly not impossible. I like to make it simple, so I am going to stay with the oem mounting system.
I'll post more photos as the installation progresses. Below is a photo of all the components of the clutch ebrake assembly. I had to remove the assembly, which rides inside the piston, by removing the dust plug in the front of the piston, putting a punch through, and tapping it out with the piston clamped in a vise, clamped on the outside edge of the piston which sticks out past the dust cover ring. That radius does not seal anything, so a little scratching/marring won't hurt it.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010390.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010390.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"
One other thing I wanted to mention, that I think is ultra important: With my 'spocket' gears, I tried to spin then one tooth at a time, pulling them apart, and then pushing them together again. In some of the positions they bound up, so I took a small file and carefully filed off the rough edges of the gears, rotating 360 degrees with the gears, and kept clean-filing, until they just dropped easily into place 'on every tooth'. I wonder how many rebuilders do that? That could be one of the main causes these ebrake cals stop working correctly.Thirty-three year old calipers not working right? With the corrections I have made, and a bit of manual labor, I hope they will work correctly for many years. It is easy to understand how they could have gotten clogged and coroded.
That made me wonder. Do the inexpernsive rebuilders even mess with the ebrake clutch seal? Could that be one of the reasons these Caddy Calipers so often fail, and have a bad reputation? People want to save a buck, and never know what they didn't get. You can see the seal in the photo below. The Napa part # you want is 937. But even with that, you will still need two extra copper washers. Next to my hand is the seal that goes in the groove at my thumb.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010391.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010391.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I spent the better part of a day fiddling with the ebrake clutch mechanism, trying to understand it. You can see below the sprocket like gear that keeps the cals adjusted. When the ebrake is set, it turns the screw which pushes the piston and locks the brakes. But when the ebrake is released, the gear can spin or ratchet to the next tooth as the pads wear, keeping your cal adjusted. The black shaft I have my finger on is the ebrake shaft, which has the cable arm bolted to one end. See how it screws out and pushes the piston, which applies the pads to the rotor?
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010392.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010392.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
So, if the ebrake is not used pretty often, the brakes could get out of adjustment, and therefore the ebrake stops working. Tip: leave the ebrake off until pads are installed, and the cal. is sitting on the rotor. Then you need to 're-clock' the ebrake arm, after ratcheting the pads together until they are just touching the rotor. Then move the ebrake arm to the best position for maximum travel.
Note: GM installed these cals with the driver side cal on the engine side of the rear end. The passenger side cal is mounted on the rear bumper side of the rear end. If you mount them both on forward of or both behind the rear end, then one of the bleeder fittings will be at the bottom of the cal., making it a bit fun to bleed, but certainly not impossible. I like to make it simple, so I am going to stay with the oem mounting system.
I'll post more photos as the installation progresses. Below is a photo of all the components of the clutch ebrake assembly. I had to remove the assembly, which rides inside the piston, by removing the dust plug in the front of the piston, putting a punch through, and tapping it out with the piston clamped in a vise, clamped on the outside edge of the piston which sticks out past the dust cover ring. That radius does not seal anything, so a little scratching/marring won't hurt it.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010390.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010390.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"
One other thing I wanted to mention, that I think is ultra important: With my 'spocket' gears, I tried to spin then one tooth at a time, pulling them apart, and then pushing them together again. In some of the positions they bound up, so I took a small file and carefully filed off the rough edges of the gears, rotating 360 degrees with the gears, and kept clean-filing, until they just dropped easily into place 'on every tooth'. I wonder how many rebuilders do that? That could be one of the main causes these ebrake cals stop working correctly.Thirty-three year old calipers not working right? With the corrections I have made, and a bit of manual labor, I hope they will work correctly for many years. It is easy to understand how they could have gotten clogged and coroded.
#58
09-04-2010, 09:16 PM
Postmaster
#59
09-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Pisses me off...
I tried to save a buck by rebuilding the cals myself. Then I find that none of the rebuild kits come with the ebrake mechanism seal. I went to GM, and the part doesn't even show up in their exploded view computer. I spoke with the top guy at the street rod brake shop here, and he said I have to buy the rebuilt.
"How do I know if they replaced that seal?" I asked.
"You don't," he answered. "But if it leaks you take it back."
You know, you try to do something yourself to save a buck and know that it is done right, but you're shot in the backside by some coporate underhanded dealings.
It reminds me why banks have glass separating the customer from the teller. Most people think it is because of robberies. But when I was a boy my Grandpa grabbed a teller by his lapels and pulled him over the counter. So I know why the glass is there. Grandpa's arms had gotten pretty strong working at the Ford plant!
"How do I know if they replaced that seal?" I asked.
"You don't," he answered. "But if it leaks you take it back."
You know, you try to do something yourself to save a buck and know that it is done right, but you're shot in the backside by some coporate underhanded dealings.
It reminds me why banks have glass separating the customer from the teller. Most people think it is because of robberies. But when I was a boy my Grandpa grabbed a teller by his lapels and pulled him over the counter. So I know why the glass is there. Grandpa's arms had gotten pretty strong working at the Ford plant!
#60
09-07-2010, 08:42 PM
Lead Driver
those calipers are WAY too complicated for my liking... no wonder they fail so often...
what you were saying about the way the calipers are mounted is basically that one is at like 9 o clock facing the wheel, and the other is also at 9 facing the wheel? so one points towards the front and the other towards the rear, and the bleeder ends up on the bottom if you mount them at the same angle? if thats the case, couldn't you just you two of the same side and have the bleeders end up on the correct end?
what you were saying about the way the calipers are mounted is basically that one is at like 9 o clock facing the wheel, and the other is also at 9 facing the wheel? so one points towards the front and the other towards the rear, and the bleeder ends up on the bottom if you mount them at the same angle? if thats the case, couldn't you just you two of the same side and have the bleeders end up on the correct end?