E brake with disc conversion?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Since GM made these Calipers identical, they have to be mounted one in front and one behind the axle. Because of ebrake cable issue, I want to mount them both behind the axle. That would mean that one will have the bleeder facing down.
Is there any reason I can't drill and tap a second bleeder hole facing up?
Is there any reason I can't drill and tap a second bleeder hole facing up?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
I finally was able to get all the parts and time to do the conversion. You'll notice more parts than are needed to do the swap, but I am also replacing all the lines, soft and hard, since they are all oem, and the softies are showing cracks.
It also looks as though the adjustable prop. valve will bolt right to the oem mount for the old valve. That saves time. I am looking forward to finally getting into it.
Note: Buying the oem soft lines from R... Auto really saved me money.
It also looks as though the adjustable prop. valve will bolt right to the oem mount for the old valve. That saves time. I am looking forward to finally getting into it.
Note: Buying the oem soft lines from R... Auto really saved me money.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 9
From: Western Washington
I will be interested to find out how this works out, you've spent a lot of time and money on this project! The first thing I ever did to my truck was replace the hard and soft lines, after who knows how many years of rain and rust the line to back was completely rusted in two! Fortunately, the front lines were still decent (the truck stopped just fine), but I went ahead and replaced them anyways. After 30 something years, I figure it's about time!
Sam
Sam
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
I think with everything, reblt mstr, hoses, lines, prop. valve, etc., I'm only about $300 into it. It was great finding the calipers and doing them myself. That saved a bundle. But what really made me happy was finding that R... Auto sells a lot of close outs from name brand manufacturers, for a fraction of the price. I managed to get five good quality hoses for about what it would have cost me for one from the parts store!!! The rebuilt mastr only cost $20.
Another thing that saved me $ was finding the Azone and O'rielly's loan you tools (double flaring tool) for a refundable deposit. I didn't know that.
I finished the front end today with the proportioning valve, and tomorrow I'll be working on the discs in the rear. I'm dying to feel the difference. It was alright before, except in emergency situations when you needed hard braking. Now I should be back in control.
I'll post some photos tomorrow.
Another thing that saved me $ was finding the Azone and O'rielly's loan you tools (double flaring tool) for a refundable deposit. I didn't know that.
I finished the front end today with the proportioning valve, and tomorrow I'll be working on the discs in the rear. I'm dying to feel the difference. It was alright before, except in emergency situations when you needed hard braking. Now I should be back in control.
I'll post some photos tomorrow.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Photos
What eats up a lot of time is making the brake lines. Anyway, I'm about 90% finished now. Tomorrow I'll bleed the system, and dinker with the ebrake cables. I believe the cables will be pretty easy. Bleeding the Caddy calipers, however, it going to be a pain.
Here are some photos of what I've accomplished so far.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010430.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010430.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It was pretty easy to remove the oem 35 year old proportioning valve, connect the front lines to a T fitting, and mount an adjustable valve on the oem bracket.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010433.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010433.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It was a nice feeling to pull the entire drum set up, and know I won't have to deal with it again.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010434.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010434.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I was surprised to find that the Greatlakes brackets came bare metal. I had to grind them a bit to get the calipers to fit too. I didn't want them to rust, so I grabbed some spray paint and gave them a shot.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010435.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010435.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
When I hammered in the lug nuts to join the hub and rotor, I didn't pay attention. After I mounted it, I shook it to check bearing, and found the hub a bit loose, so I had to remove it again and tap the lugs in a bit more.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010436.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010436.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Since I used the Caddy calipers, the chevy hoses needed to be modified with a grinder. I also had to bore the hole where the banjo bolt goes, so the bolt would go through. It took about 1/2 hour to rebend and shape the metal ends.
Here are some photos of what I've accomplished so far.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010430.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010430.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It was pretty easy to remove the oem 35 year old proportioning valve, connect the front lines to a T fitting, and mount an adjustable valve on the oem bracket.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010433.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010433.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It was a nice feeling to pull the entire drum set up, and know I won't have to deal with it again.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010434.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010434.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I was surprised to find that the Greatlakes brackets came bare metal. I had to grind them a bit to get the calipers to fit too. I didn't want them to rust, so I grabbed some spray paint and gave them a shot.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010435.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010435.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
When I hammered in the lug nuts to join the hub and rotor, I didn't pay attention. After I mounted it, I shook it to check bearing, and found the hub a bit loose, so I had to remove it again and tap the lugs in a bit more.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010436.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010436.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Since I used the Caddy calipers, the chevy hoses needed to be modified with a grinder. I also had to bore the hole where the banjo bolt goes, so the bolt would go through. It took about 1/2 hour to rebend and shape the metal ends.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 9
From: Western Washington
What are you doing with all the old drum hardware? I'm in need of a self adjuster mechanism, return springs etc. If you want to get rid of it, send me a PM.
That's an interesting spot to put the prop valve, and a much better spot, in my opinion. My prop valve is down on the frame under the cab. I had been wondering if you were going to be crawling under your truck to adjust that bugger, looks like all you have to do is open the hood!
All those new parts do look nice! I will have to remember that site for hoses, I paid about $145 total for 3 hoses, and on my budget, that hurt! I never did use the flaring tool, I just bough pre-flared straight lines and bent them, and added a loop or two here and there to take up the slack. It doesn't look pretty, but it works great!
Sam
That's an interesting spot to put the prop valve, and a much better spot, in my opinion. My prop valve is down on the frame under the cab. I had been wondering if you were going to be crawling under your truck to adjust that bugger, looks like all you have to do is open the hood!
All those new parts do look nice! I will have to remember that site for hoses, I paid about $145 total for 3 hoses, and on my budget, that hurt! I never did use the flaring tool, I just bough pre-flared straight lines and bent them, and added a loop or two here and there to take up the slack. It doesn't look pretty, but it works great!
Sam
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
This installation is kicking my butt. Today was the the third day I worked on it! I spent most of the day trying to figure out the ebrake cables. Since one mounts forward and one behind the axle, it makes the cables sort of challenging.
Every time I attempted putting on the ebrake cable arm, the calipers would tighten up and really drag hard on the rotors. So I had to surface the pads and reinstall. On the drivers side cut off the cable end, shortened it, and welded a nut to the end. I also had to grind the ebrake cable arm quite a bit to get it to fit, as you can see in the photo below.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010439.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010439.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010440.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010440.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I bought the Chevy rubber hoses. Each one had an ear on either side where the banjo bolt goes through. I had to cut the ears off, and round two of the corners a tad.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010438.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010438.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
For the drivers side cable, I just cut the spring off with a grinder, and welded a brake tab onto the axle housing to hold the cable.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010441.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010441.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Lastly, when I tried to bleed it system I ran into two problems. The bleeder screws in the front are toast, and the fluid in the cals. is rusty.
For the rears I taped together two pieces of wood the thickness of the rotor, so I could tilt each rear cal. up for bleeding. Just when I was getting close, I checked the reservoir and one side was empty. Back to square one with the bleeding.
Every time I attempted putting on the ebrake cable arm, the calipers would tighten up and really drag hard on the rotors. So I had to surface the pads and reinstall. On the drivers side cut off the cable end, shortened it, and welded a nut to the end. I also had to grind the ebrake cable arm quite a bit to get it to fit, as you can see in the photo below.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010439.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010439.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010440.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010440.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I bought the Chevy rubber hoses. Each one had an ear on either side where the banjo bolt goes through. I had to cut the ears off, and round two of the corners a tad.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010438.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010438.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
For the drivers side cable, I just cut the spring off with a grinder, and welded a brake tab onto the axle housing to hold the cable.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010441.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010441.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Lastly, when I tried to bleed it system I ran into two problems. The bleeder screws in the front are toast, and the fluid in the cals. is rusty.
For the rears I taped together two pieces of wood the thickness of the rotor, so I could tilt each rear cal. up for bleeding. Just when I was getting close, I checked the reservoir and one side was empty. Back to square one with the bleeding.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,993
Likes: 15
From: Costa Mesa, CA
all the trouble you are going through with these just solidifys the fact that I will never use them. I didn't really get why people used them in the past and now I really don't get it...
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Hell, I agree with you. Someone ought to smack me with a hammer. I thought I had to have the ebrake. But if I had known how much trouble they were going to be, I would have gone with the chevy in a flash.
If these don't work right, that is exactly what I'm going to do.
If these don't work right, that is exactly what I'm going to do.
New User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Can I buy your old backing plates, etc?
Interesting thread and I admire your determination. I'd like to buy your rear backing plates and all the internal parts that go with them when you have finished your conversion to discs. Would you be interesting?
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Today I 'tuned' everything, adjusted the ebrake cable, adjusting arm on calipers, and then drove it to dial in the adjustable prop. valve. The rears lock up when I stomp on it, or one does (can't get the driver's side to tighten up) so I backed off the prop v.
I know this could change as I figure out the system, but right now the ebrake is not worth spit. It will not even hold the truck still when idling in gear (auto trans).
For all the labor I put into the swap, I'd have to say that right now I am severely disappointed. I have read other guys who used these calipers and were very happy. Maybe I'll find out what the problem is and remedy it, but right now I would say go with the chevy calipers. If I don't figure it out in a week, I am putting these on ebay and going with the chevy rears for sure.
I know this could change as I figure out the system, but right now the ebrake is not worth spit. It will not even hold the truck still when idling in gear (auto trans).
For all the labor I put into the swap, I'd have to say that right now I am severely disappointed. I have read other guys who used these calipers and were very happy. Maybe I'll find out what the problem is and remedy it, but right now I would say go with the chevy calipers. If I don't figure it out in a week, I am putting these on ebay and going with the chevy rears for sure.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Dude, I studied the workings for a long time, and thought I had them figured out. They are an unbelievable amount of labor, both the rebuild and to install, and then you still think they're junk.
I'm going to give them a week, and try with the 78 F350 booster/mstr., and then if they are still not working right...to ebay they go!!
I couldn't believe when I stomped on the ebrake, while idling forward on my slightly uphill driveway, and it had zero effect. I mean I didn't even feel it hesitate or slow--at all!
I'm going to give them a week, and try with the 78 F350 booster/mstr., and then if they are still not working right...to ebay they go!!
I couldn't believe when I stomped on the ebrake, while idling forward on my slightly uphill driveway, and it had zero effect. I mean I didn't even feel it hesitate or slow--at all!
New User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
A couple of suggestions hoping it works -
Have you checked if the cable is pulling hard on the lever arm? (You probably have).
Is it possible the spring is totally compressed and essential solid before the lever travels far enough to apply the brakes?
Terry
Have you checked if the cable is pulling hard on the lever arm? (You probably have).
Is it possible the spring is totally compressed and essential solid before the lever travels far enough to apply the brakes?
Terry
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,188
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
I've been under the truck 100X, but I'm not done yet. The travel on the ebrake arm is only about 3/4", so no chance of spring binding. The cables are pulling good...imagine locking up manual brakes, and you have the force I am applying.
I'll keep tinkering with them and see what I come up with. I notice that the ebrake engages the arm in the very early stage of the pedals travel, and I have to really jam it to the floor to get it to click and lock. It should be plenty of force to lock the calipers. But if I am driving down the street and stomp on the ebrake, I can not feel a difference.
I'll keep tinkering with them and see what I come up with. I notice that the ebrake engages the arm in the very early stage of the pedals travel, and I have to really jam it to the floor to get it to click and lock. It should be plenty of force to lock the calipers. But if I am driving down the street and stomp on the ebrake, I can not feel a difference.