[quote=strokersace;8465890]I think you've got them all covered!! With tuning dialed in with your setup, you should be getting close to 400. I'd say 375 rwhp isn't out of line.

Thats what I was thinking ! The problem is right now my EGT's are out of this world and I can only hit 27lbs of boost ! Does anyone know about tubonetics turbo's ? Are they designed to see lower boost numbers and push more air with lower numbers ?

 

I was just through great falls last weekend strokeraces! I went to revelstoke BC for a week. There were the pick-ups pulling the same load of enclosed trailers and i out pulled a new Ford6.4 and a new dodge 6.7 and still did better on milage. What do you think of my idea of gettin rid of the WW and going with the ats housing and stock wheel?

 

Just save a little more and get a 38R since the ported housing is 1/4 of the cost of a brand new 38R.

 

Oh lets see if I can remember:

Hypermax 2's, van turbo w/ ported housing, regulated return, map regulator, 140V IDM, BTS tranny, HPX, Tymar intake, 5" exhaust, Cale's chip... I think that's all the big stuff

A bunch of other stuff but none that really made a difference in peformance.

Well Crap! I was actually home this last weekend for a change too!! The one with stage 1's will stay that way for another couple of months while I'm working on my dually. Then by May/June, it'll be setup just like my '02 was. Like I said, you're more than welcome see how each feels if you're not in a HUGE hurry to get some bought. Don't know if I'll be down in Billings anytime soon or I'd bring it to you!

As for the WW or ported housing, I've only ran the housing and stock wheel and got by great. Never had any surge with it. I've never ran the WW though, so no first hand experience. But I've heard that it doesn't 100% cure surge like the housing does. So take it for what it's worth!

 

To the OP, stage 1's would be a good fit for you. Just the cost of injectors and a reburn from Jody. If you'd go stage 2's you'll probably need a bigger turbo.

Gene- How can OTR trucks run up to 1,000,000 miles with single shots before they need rebuilding? If they had split shots could they go 2,000,000? I just have a hard time believing what you say, given that the majority of it is just theory.

If you have done real world tests and can show the wear differences between single and splits after 100K and 200k miles, then I'm interested.

 

Oh -- you had Hypermaxes... I keep seeing that they make more power than others. Are they the ones that don't release the specs on their injectors? Seems like you were making more power than some folks with smallish hybrids...

 

He's basing his theory on this:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1997067138.pdf

Problem is, that test has absolutely nothing to do with split shot vs. single shot injection. What it is, is a TRR wear test comparing conventional diesel engines (such as our 7.3L), and experimenting with what is called a "low heat rejection" engine design. What they are testing is the wear rates of a low heat rejection engine using standard components on common diesel engines. Low heat rejection engines have modifications that make them different than our 7.3L's. Here is a snippet from the link:

Notice how Gene took that snippet out of context with what was really being discussed in the article. Again it has nothing to do with split vs single shot. Instead it's testing ways to reduce waste energy and increase thermal efficiency in a diesel engine by limiting the coolant around the cylinders and increasing temperatures within the combustion chambers beyond what is normally seen in typical diesel engines, and testing to see how that damages normal diesel components. Read the article carefully, you'll see what they are talking about.

TRR wear happens on our engines from TIMING - regardless of whether or not the injector is a split shot or single shot. If you advance the timing too far, you spray the cylinder walls with fuel. This reduces the lubricating oil of the TRR and thus increases the wear rate.

 

I'm not sure if they release the specs or not. They flow around 195 to 200cc's. The ones I had were their standard stage 2's w/ 80% nozzles. But they do make a "larger" stage 2 that's not on their website. Rumor has it they modify the oil passages or something. But even when talking to Ron at Hypermax, I wasn't able to get any info. They're suppose to be good for another 25hp over the standard 2's.

I actually sold mine to the guy who bought my truck. He also bought my chip since it was already setup for the truck, injectors, etc.

BUT... I bought a set of the "larger" hypermax stage 2's for the same price that I'll be putting in my new pickup. I plan on being over 500rwhp with it and will be running the EXACT setup Brian at BTS is in his personal pickup only mine will be an OBS.

 

Seems like they're pushing the "Stage 2" category then. If yours were 200cc stage 2s with 80% nozzles, you were in the same category as the Swamps 200cc hybrids. And they are sold with 30% nozzles, IIRC. What size are the ones you're looking at?? They sure sound about like mine (235cc/100%), if they're capable of 500+...

 

Yeah, they're on the extreme high end of 2's. Their 2's are more like a 2 1/2 or 3 from other companies.

The ones I've got now are are the larger 2's with 100% nozzles. Not sure if these oil modded injectors flow more cc's of fuel or just keep the injectors open longer to get more fuel in.

 

Injector open time is up to tuning...

 

See that's just it. That was just my guess. I really have no idea what the differences or mods are. I've heard them called an "oil modded injector". All I could get out of Ron at Hypermax is they "flow more fuel". Accourding to Mike (Blowby on PSN) who I got these from, Luke Cline and AlanB had the same injectors and they have mods done to the oil passages. These are also the same ones Brian and Cale have in their trucks. Brian dynoed 525hp with them.

 

I haven't personally conducted "real world" tests on injectors ...but others such as the MIT engine lab have ...and I'll be posting pictures and information based on real engine data from various sources ...and my primary source isn't the one mentioned by Pocket ...which measured wear using a test rig and not on an actual engine ...as usual Pocket seems so anxious to claim I'm wrong that he won't even wait to see what I actually post on the topic of engine wear versus single-shot and split-shot injectors!

Since this site isn't a "court of law" there's no need for comments that imply I'm trying to "mislead the jury"! I'm actually trying to provide a useful service called "exchange of information and ideas about diesels" ...because that topic has become my retirement hobby ...and after retirement comes death ...so if I don't bother to pass along some of the things I've learned before then I won't have another opportunity to do so ...at least that's my current theory on how death works!

I also don't have any personal "real world" experience with jumping off cliffs ...but I can give a pretty convincing theory that in the "real world" jumping off cliffs reduces one's life expectancy ...even if a parachute is employed ...and I hope the theoretical discussions of engine wear, injectors, and other aspects of diesel operation that I'll be giving on my thread will be equally convincing!

I won't be covering the subject of single-shot versus split-shot injectors for awhile ...so for those who can't wait for my actual posts on that topic here's a preview ...if you study the picture below you can probably surmise that switching to split-shot injectors most definitely reduced the cylinder temperatures and pressures in the critical wear region of TRR ...because the region for TRR is also the critical region where NOx is produced! So the introduction of split-shot injectors to meet emissions had a beneficial side effect of also reducing upper cylinder wear!



If anyone wants to start doing some theoretical analysis on their own just use the picture below ...and for a 7.3L use V1=58.817 in^3 and V2=3.361 in^3 ...which gives a compression ratio of... V1/V2=58.817/3.361=17.5 ...and use "gamma"=1.3. The ratio V3/V2 is called the "cut-off ratio" and it's the volume ratio over which fuel is injected and it's determined by tuning ...and cut-off ratios of 2 to 3 are typical ...and the ratio V1/V3 is the expansion ratio.

This picture illustrates the type of fuel injection required to achieve both "minimum" NOx generation and "minimum" upper cylinder wear ...the fuel injection must be orchestrated so that ...the "maximum" cylinder pressure during the power stroke doesn't exceed the initial cylinder pressure at the end of the compression stroke ...and so that the cylinder temperature during the power stroke only exceeds the initial cylinder temperature at the end of the compression stroke by the "minimum" amount necessary to maintain a constant cylinder pressure during the interval of fuel injection where more combustion heat is needed to compensate for the increasing cylinder volume ...and in the "real world" multi-shot injectors are required to even approximate this picture ...but split-shot injectors do a much better job of approximating this picture than is possible with single-shot injectors!



If one generates a Pressure-Temperature-Volume diagram using single-shot injectors ...and compares it to the P-T-V diagram above for "minimum" upper cylinder wear ...one sees large spikes in Pressure & Temperature in the TRR region ...and I'll explain the reasons why single-shot injectors cause these spikes in my thread ...but for now the bottom-line is ...the increased Pressure leaks behind the compression rings and pushes them harder against the cylinder wall ...and the combination of increased Pressure & Temperature also disrupts the oil film between the rings and the cylinder wall ...and the combination of these effects increases the wear rate of the rings and cylinder walls when single-shot injectors are used versus split-shot injectors!

The reason why big rigs have a longer "miles" of life expectancy compared to pickups is due to their lower engine RPM for the same MPH ...it's the total number of piston ring-cylinder wall scuffing traversals in the critical wear region of TRR that determines the "crankshaft revolutions" of life expectancy ...and a big rig travels 2 to 3 times more miles than a pickup does for the same number of these wear-inducing traversals!

I've found no wear data for an actual 7.3L ...but by using normalized parameters such as piston speed, HP per piston area, etc... one can use test data from similar engines to calculate estimates of wear for a 7.3L. Here's some of the inputs I need to refine my model for calculating these types of estimates.

I need the weight of a piston and the weight of a rod and the center-to-center length of a rod! Also to help with my analysis of piston friction ...if anyone has access to a 7.3L engine with the heads removed please use a torque wrench and measure the average TQ required to rotate the crankshaft about 90* or so and then repeat this measurement 4 or 5 times so I can average those results ...and I also need to know if a 7.3L engine uses an offset wrist pin?

 

I would like to see some data on your cliff jumping theory Gene
You post away Gene. I learn alot from your informative posts and admire the dedication you apply to all of them m8

 

Since I'm in Cocoa, FL ...and still waiting to witness the last nighttime shuttle launch ...I'm taller than any hill around here ...so data on cliff jumping will have to wait until my next trip out west!

However a few days ago a kite surfer was eaten by a shark just south of here ...so I could do a theory on why suffering in shark infested waters reduces one's life expectancy ...but since you're not from Alice Springs you probably already know about that theory anyway!

So what I'll do instead is add a few more words to the topic of engine wear versus single-shot and split-shot injectors! The "pilot injection" feature of the newer split-shot injectors reduces the "ignition delay" for the "main injection" that follows ...and this in turn reduces both ...the rate of increase in cylinder pressure and temperature ...and the maximum values of cylinder pressure and temperature in the vicinity of TDC.

With single-shot injectors the extra fuel mass that's initially injected causes a longer "ignition delay" and in addition to the adverse impact this has on cylinder pressure and temperature ...a longer "ignition delay" also means there's a greater chance for some unburned fuel to contact the cylinder wall and find its way down past the piston rings ...thereby causing an additional disruption to the oil film between the rings and the cylinder wall!