Coolant Change 101
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
Beach,
My circumstances match yours with 2 exceptions. I don't have a coolant filter and have never sent oil samples for verification. With that said, my coolant was coal black after adding 2 qts of VC9, driving a few miles, and draining. I will add the VC9 to mine everytime I flush from now on. I plan on my truck lasting throughout my retirement years while pulling a fifth wheel. With no more miles than I pull with it that should not be a problem with proper maintenance. I know you are a fanatic about maintenance so you should "just do it".
My circumstances match yours with 2 exceptions. I don't have a coolant filter and have never sent oil samples for verification. With that said, my coolant was coal black after adding 2 qts of VC9, driving a few miles, and draining. I will add the VC9 to mine everytime I flush from now on. I plan on my truck lasting throughout my retirement years while pulling a fifth wheel. With no more miles than I pull with it that should not be a problem with proper maintenance. I know you are a fanatic about maintenance so you should "just do it".
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Jeff:
When I did mine for the first time at 100,000 miles and used VC-9 (and installed the Coolant filter), I ended up attaching a garden hose to the hose at the bottom of the degass bottle that goes to the cab. I then added a hose to the heater valve on the passenger side of the engine (will try to find the TSB that describes the procedure and post). Ran this to a five gallon bucket and had an old pillowcase attached to the hose. With the two heaters turned wide open I let the water flow. The amount of "sand" I collected in the pillowcase was amazing. It was also the only way to flush the "brownish" liquid from my system. After that I just did the coolant flush as written without removing the T-stat.
Good luck will be waiting to hear your results.
Happy New Year.
Mike
When I did mine for the first time at 100,000 miles and used VC-9 (and installed the Coolant filter), I ended up attaching a garden hose to the hose at the bottom of the degass bottle that goes to the cab. I then added a hose to the heater valve on the passenger side of the engine (will try to find the TSB that describes the procedure and post). Ran this to a five gallon bucket and had an old pillowcase attached to the hose. With the two heaters turned wide open I let the water flow. The amount of "sand" I collected in the pillowcase was amazing. It was also the only way to flush the "brownish" liquid from my system. After that I just did the coolant flush as written without removing the T-stat.
Good luck will be waiting to hear your results.
Happy New Year.
Mike
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
I have heard reports of "rust colors", sediment, flakes, sand, silcate drop out... but never "coal black" color fluid????
Wonder if the VC-9 cleaner reacted with the black radiator hoses in some way and removed some of the color or rubber on the inside of the hoses... then with enough flushing, it ran clear again???
What would be in your system to turn the fluid "coal black"... that you would not have seen inthe degas bottle to begin with....unless you had/have an oil leak or old oil residue in your cooling system that the VC-9 removed... but I would think that if it looked that bad during the flush, it would have looked that bad before the flush?
Ideas... anyone?????
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Beach,
I have the greatest admiration and respect for your maintenance --- which far surpasses mine.
Having said that, let's take your "seat, see, hear" concept to its logical conclusion.
If you can get a borescope or a way to see inside the block and get the coolant's eye view of what is going on, what will you see / feel / hear?
Corrosion is insidious - it can lodge as a huge deposit inside that is resistant to a regular non VC9 flush.
So is scale. Even if you use distilled water, some minerals remain in water, and not just in the water, but from the coolant from which you use to fill the system.
So are a lot of bits of different chemicals, metals, silica sand (remaining from the casting process) that never leaves.
Add it all together, and there is enough stuff circulating around to basically create a mini chemical soup that as it is repeatedly heated, cooled, etc. create deposits.
Talk to a good stationary engineer, and you will find even in commercial boilers that use nothing but distilled water (eg on your average navy sub), it is common and normal for boilers to be disassembled and cleaned regularly.
Cleaned with a chemical cleaner that dissolves the deposits.
Insofar as the "black" test, I am not saying it is invalid, but I am saying that it is but one indication.
Even perfectly gold colored fluid can contain colorless dissolved solids --- which is what VC-9 is suppose to do.
If you want to see what accumulates in your boiler, see this:
www.awt.org/certification/quiz1.pdf
The Chemistry of Boiler Scales The primary constituent of boiler scales is magnetite (Fe
3O), which is formed as a result of the reaction of metallic iron with high-temperature steam. Other crystalline
4 materials, some shown in Table 1, may form the scale. Copper is present due to corrosion of the copper alloy, aluminum bronze feedwater condensers and preheaters, often because of oxygen ingress into these systems. Copper is transported through the steam cycle where it forms on the boiler internals. Other constituents shown in Table 1 are transported through the steam cycle and deposited on boiler internals either from contaminants contained in the boiler feedwater system or from use of outdated phosphate-based water treatment chemicals. In addition to these crystalline inorganic compounds, there may be organic residuals present in the scale.
Table 1: Compounds Found in Boiler Scales Compound Formula
Anhydrite CaSO
Aragonite CaCO
Brucite Mg(OH)
Copper Cu Calcite CaCO
Hematite Fe
Hydroxyapetite Ca
Magnetite Fe
Quartz SiO
Thenardite Na
Wollastonite CaSiO
As you can see, there is a lot there --- and probably more than VC9 can deal with by itself.
I applaud you for trying out VC9, which, given your rigorous maintenance, might not be needed every flush... but lets see what comes out first time after your 200,000 miles!
I have the greatest admiration and respect for your maintenance --- which far surpasses mine.
Having said that, let's take your "seat, see, hear" concept to its logical conclusion.
If you can get a borescope or a way to see inside the block and get the coolant's eye view of what is going on, what will you see / feel / hear?
Corrosion is insidious - it can lodge as a huge deposit inside that is resistant to a regular non VC9 flush.
So is scale. Even if you use distilled water, some minerals remain in water, and not just in the water, but from the coolant from which you use to fill the system.
So are a lot of bits of different chemicals, metals, silica sand (remaining from the casting process) that never leaves.
Add it all together, and there is enough stuff circulating around to basically create a mini chemical soup that as it is repeatedly heated, cooled, etc. create deposits.
Talk to a good stationary engineer, and you will find even in commercial boilers that use nothing but distilled water (eg on your average navy sub), it is common and normal for boilers to be disassembled and cleaned regularly.
Cleaned with a chemical cleaner that dissolves the deposits.
Insofar as the "black" test, I am not saying it is invalid, but I am saying that it is but one indication.
Even perfectly gold colored fluid can contain colorless dissolved solids --- which is what VC-9 is suppose to do.
If you want to see what accumulates in your boiler, see this:
www.awt.org/certification/quiz1.pdf
The Chemistry of Boiler Scales The primary constituent of boiler scales is magnetite (Fe
3O), which is formed as a result of the reaction of metallic iron with high-temperature steam. Other crystalline
4 materials, some shown in Table 1, may form the scale. Copper is present due to corrosion of the copper alloy, aluminum bronze feedwater condensers and preheaters, often because of oxygen ingress into these systems. Copper is transported through the steam cycle where it forms on the boiler internals. Other constituents shown in Table 1 are transported through the steam cycle and deposited on boiler internals either from contaminants contained in the boiler feedwater system or from use of outdated phosphate-based water treatment chemicals. In addition to these crystalline inorganic compounds, there may be organic residuals present in the scale.
Table 1: Compounds Found in Boiler Scales Compound Formula
Anhydrite CaSO
Aragonite CaCO
Brucite Mg(OH)
Copper Cu Calcite CaCO
Hematite Fe
Hydroxyapetite Ca
Magnetite Fe
Quartz SiO
Thenardite Na
Wollastonite CaSiO
As you can see, there is a lot there --- and probably more than VC9 can deal with by itself.
I applaud you for trying out VC9, which, given your rigorous maintenance, might not be needed every flush... but lets see what comes out first time after your 200,000 miles!
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
Beach,
I have the greatest admiration and respect for your maintenance --- which far surpasses mine.
Having said that, let's take your "seat, see, hear" concept to its logical conclusion.
If you can get a borescope or a way to see inside the block and get the coolant's eye view of what is going on, what will you see / feel / hear?
Corrosion is insidious - it can lodge as a huge deposit inside that is resistant to a regular non VC9 flush.
So is scale. Even if you use distilled water, some minerals remain in water, and not just in the water, but from the coolant from which you use to fill the system.
So are a lot of bits of different chemicals, metals, silica sand (remaining from the casting process) that never leaves.
Add it all together, and there is enough stuff circulating around to basically create a mini chemical soup that as it is repeatedly heated, cooled, etc. create deposits.
Talk to a good stationary engineer, and you will find even in commercial boilers that use nothing but distilled water (eg on your average navy sub), it is common and normal for boilers to be disassembled and cleaned regularly.
Cleaned with a chemical cleaner that dissolves the deposits.
Insofar as the "black" test, I am not saying it is invalid, but I am saying that it is but one indication.
Even perfectly gold colored fluid can contain colorless dissolved solids --- which is what VC-9 is suppose to do.
If you want to see what accumulates in your boiler, see this:
www.awt.org/certification/quiz1.pdf
As you can see, there is a lot there --- and probably more than VC9 can deal with by itself.
I applaud you for trying out VC9, which, given your rigorous maintenance, might not be needed every flush... but lets see what comes out first time after your 200,000 miles!
I have the greatest admiration and respect for your maintenance --- which far surpasses mine.
Having said that, let's take your "seat, see, hear" concept to its logical conclusion.
If you can get a borescope or a way to see inside the block and get the coolant's eye view of what is going on, what will you see / feel / hear?
Corrosion is insidious - it can lodge as a huge deposit inside that is resistant to a regular non VC9 flush.
So is scale. Even if you use distilled water, some minerals remain in water, and not just in the water, but from the coolant from which you use to fill the system.
So are a lot of bits of different chemicals, metals, silica sand (remaining from the casting process) that never leaves.
Add it all together, and there is enough stuff circulating around to basically create a mini chemical soup that as it is repeatedly heated, cooled, etc. create deposits.
Talk to a good stationary engineer, and you will find even in commercial boilers that use nothing but distilled water (eg on your average navy sub), it is common and normal for boilers to be disassembled and cleaned regularly.
Cleaned with a chemical cleaner that dissolves the deposits.
Insofar as the "black" test, I am not saying it is invalid, but I am saying that it is but one indication.
Even perfectly gold colored fluid can contain colorless dissolved solids --- which is what VC-9 is suppose to do.
If you want to see what accumulates in your boiler, see this:
www.awt.org/certification/quiz1.pdf
As you can see, there is a lot there --- and probably more than VC9 can deal with by itself.
I applaud you for trying out VC9, which, given your rigorous maintenance, might not be needed every flush... but lets see what comes out first time after your 200,000 miles!
I will definately use VC-9 at my next coolant flush.... which I think may come later this summer due to mileage... and if past my self imposed 50,000 mile mark... will be when it warms back up outside!!! (will have to check my files to see when I last did it).
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 998
Likes: 23
From: Tennessee
[QUOTE=Beachbumcook;9799030]Got to thinking... what would make your system (using VC-9 cleaner) turn the fluid "coal black" as you describe above?
I have heard reports of "rust colors", sediment, flakes, sand, silcate drop out... but never "coal black" color fluid????
Wonder if the VC-9 cleaner reacted with the black radiator hoses in some way and removed some of the color or rubber on the inside of the hoses... then with enough flushing, it ran clear again???
What would be in your system to turn the fluid "coal black"... that you would not have seen inthe degas bottle to begin with....unless you had/have an oil leak or old oil residue in your cooling system that the VC-9 removed... but I would think that if it looked that bad during the flush, it would have looked that bad before the flush?
I have seen pictures on threads of flushed water from a 6L that looked like mine. I don't have an explanation. Mine was rust colored after 6 flushes and cleared up from there. I backflushed the radiator with a garden hose. Did not remove the thermostat. If I had removed it, I am sure it would have not taken as many flushes with distilled water. I did pull the drivers side block plug between each flush.
I was hesitant to spend the money, but the VC9 made a believer out of me.
I have heard reports of "rust colors", sediment, flakes, sand, silcate drop out... but never "coal black" color fluid????
Wonder if the VC-9 cleaner reacted with the black radiator hoses in some way and removed some of the color or rubber on the inside of the hoses... then with enough flushing, it ran clear again???
What would be in your system to turn the fluid "coal black"... that you would not have seen inthe degas bottle to begin with....unless you had/have an oil leak or old oil residue in your cooling system that the VC-9 removed... but I would think that if it looked that bad during the flush, it would have looked that bad before the flush?
I have seen pictures on threads of flushed water from a 6L that looked like mine. I don't have an explanation. Mine was rust colored after 6 flushes and cleared up from there. I backflushed the radiator with a garden hose. Did not remove the thermostat. If I had removed it, I am sure it would have not taken as many flushes with distilled water. I did pull the drivers side block plug between each flush.
I was hesitant to spend the money, but the VC9 made a believer out of me.
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Twin Cities, MN
This may be a silly question, but where and how do you discard all of the used coolant?
Last edited by epfire#233; Jan 9, 2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason: spelling
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 7
From: Francestown, NH
I live with a septic system and I get my drinking water from a well on my property. So I didn't want to pour it down my drain or on my land.
I called my local Ford dealer and they'll take it for $1 per gallon.
One member posted that their local transfer station said they'd take it, but then weren't too happy when he showed up with 20gal after doing a flush
A local shop may take it from you for nothing or a small fee.
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
After the first dump or two... the coolant soaks in and then dillutes... after it snows and rains... it is really dilluted. Can't be any worse than a truck wreck or chemical spill anywhere else along the road or highway (is how I justify it).
Screw it... private property... as far as I am concerned.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
Likes: 317
From: Whittier, CA
I put mine down the sink to the sewer system. Actually, just the first couple of flushes while it is still strong, then after that it is mostly water anyway and I pour it out on a gravel garden area. Hasn't killed the Ivy yet, but I keep hoping.
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
Used coolant is used in baby formula in China, dog food and is an ingredient in meth... so I was selling to a local drug crazed recycler.... I thought I was doing my part by being a Tree-Hugging" enviromentalist recycling kind of guy!!!! 
I hugged a tree once.... and I killed it
Sorry guys.... I am a diesel driving, black smoke generating, gun toting, conceal-carrying, God fearing, do what I want, leave me alone and I will leave you a lone kind of of guy. I am also a buy me a beer I will also buy you a beer kind of guy as well.
I hugged a tree once.... and I killed it
Sorry guys.... I am a diesel driving, black smoke generating, gun toting, conceal-carrying, God fearing, do what I want, leave me alone and I will leave you a lone kind of of guy. I am also a buy me a beer I will also buy you a beer kind of guy as well.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Morganton, GA
Sorry guys.... I am a diesel driving, black smoke generating, gun toting, conceal-carrying, God fearing, do what I want, leave me alone and I will leave you a lone kind of of guy. I am also a buy me a beer I will also buy you a beer kind of guy as well. [/QUOTE]
No reason to be sorry about that!
[/QUOTE]No reason to be sorry about that!
Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
I know... only in case someone gets their panties in a wad about dropping the used coolant on the ground. I am sure there are a few Liberals here on the forums.... and I just wanted to make sure they know who they may be messing with....
