300I6 Powered
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
It's not ignorant if you consider that the person looking at the dyno chart is only looking at peak power. In that case it is easy to see how many engines could be tuned to make less peak power but yet still make the car they are in go faster than before being tuned that way. There are so many more factors that go into deciding whether a certain power curve will make a car quicker or not. You don't have to consider all these when you are just track tuning because the physics of reality does all the thinking for you. But to understand how a new powercurve will really affect a car by only using the dyno curve and not actually going out on the track, while probably not impossible, would take much more than just looking at a few numbers. It would take many, many calculations. So I can see what Torino is saying in a way.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,074
Likes: 1
From: Mass.
It's not ignorant if you consider that the person looking at the dyno chart is only looking at peak power. In that case it is easy to see how many engines could be tuned to make less peak power but yet still make the car they are in go faster than before being tuned that way. There are so many more factors that go into deciding whether a certain power curve will make a car quicker or not. You don't have to consider all these when you are just track tuning because the physics of reality does all the thinking for you. But to understand how a new powercurve will really affect a car by only using the dyno curve and not actually going out on the track, while probably not impossible, would take much more than just looking at a few numbers. It would take many, many calculations. So I can see what Torino is saying in a way.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
Then why dont you head over on to sbftech.com, and talk to the master himself, Jay allen? because he will laugh at you, and so will everyone else over there, because they are experienced engine builders.
Maybe i should just stay out of the engine sections of this site, or just leave this site altogether, since all the misinformation is making me sick sometimes.
Maybe i should just stay out of the engine sections of this site, or just leave this site altogether, since all the misinformation is making me sick sometimes.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
....Your first quote ... Dynos are useless !!! Miss info !!! I had my truck dyno tuned on a dyno jet buy a very good engine tuner that just does 5.0 s . He had the truck for two days & was on the dyno 6 times . Evertime it was on the dyno was just to check the real time he spent driving the truck making adjustmeants with the tuner & it came out great ... So if you think a dyno is useless ... Thats ok i just don't agree ... Lew
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 2
From: Wahpeton ND
How many of you have actualy rebuilt an engine?
Everyone talks but, really.
I have. I've also ground valves. I may only have 130 HP but I got one hell of a pile of torque.
Oh, I dont over rev it. I change my oil. I have seen people on this site sit and toss out there opinions and ideas only to mention that their mechanic is going to change their intake gasket. Why would I listin to somone who hasent the faintest clue on how to do that.
Heck, I could probobly jerk desktop dyno arond enough to make a model A engine show down a tuner car.
Lets get back to mechanics here.
Everyone talks but, really.
I have. I've also ground valves. I may only have 130 HP but I got one hell of a pile of torque.
Oh, I dont over rev it. I change my oil. I have seen people on this site sit and toss out there opinions and ideas only to mention that their mechanic is going to change their intake gasket. Why would I listin to somone who hasent the faintest clue on how to do that.
Heck, I could probobly jerk desktop dyno arond enough to make a model A engine show down a tuner car.
Lets get back to mechanics here.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
How many of you have actualy rebuilt an engine?
Everyone talks but, really.
I have. I've also ground valves. I may only have 130 HP but I got one hell of a pile of torque.
Oh, I dont over rev it. I change my oil. I have seen people on this site sit and toss out there opinions and ideas only to mention that their mechanic is going to change their intake gasket. Why would I listin to somone who hasent the faintest clue on how to do that.
Heck, I could probobly jerk desktop dyno arond enough to make a model A engine show down a tuner car.
Lets get back to mechanics here.
Everyone talks but, really.
I have. I've also ground valves. I may only have 130 HP but I got one hell of a pile of torque.
Oh, I dont over rev it. I change my oil. I have seen people on this site sit and toss out there opinions and ideas only to mention that their mechanic is going to change their intake gasket. Why would I listin to somone who hasent the faintest clue on how to do that.
Heck, I could probobly jerk desktop dyno arond enough to make a model A engine show down a tuner car.
Lets get back to mechanics here.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
I've rebuilt a chevy 350, a 700r4, a few 4spds, a few tcases, gear and chain driven, clutches galore, brakes, suspension. Though yeah, a chevy 350 is the only engine I've ever done a complete rebuild on. Though I've torn plenty far into plenty of motors. I'm no expert but I have enough experience to understand usually what people are talking about.
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I know that if you look at a dyno graph the HP and TQ always intersect at 5252 RPM because that's dictated by the conversion formula.
But doesn't that mean (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be, I'm only hypothesizing) that any increase in torque below 5252 has to have a corresponding SMALLER increase in HP and any increase in torque above 5252 has to have a corresponding LARGER increase in HP?
Say for example you add 10 ft/lbs at 2000 RPM that's an increase of 3.8 HP. If you add 10 ft/lbs at 3500 RPM that's 6.6 HP. Add 10 ft/lbs at 5252 RPM and you add 10 HP. Add 10 ft/lbs at 6000 RPM and you add 11.4 HP and if you add 10 ft/lbs at 9000 RPM you add 17.1 HP.
So under 5252 RPM isn't it impossible to add more HP than you do TQ? (at any given point anyway, not averaging the whole curve). And anywhere over 5252 RPM it's impossible to add more TQ than you do HP? Just a hypothesis.
So adding 50 tq and 30 hp is more likely for a low revver like a 300
But doesn't that mean (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be, I'm only hypothesizing) that any increase in torque below 5252 has to have a corresponding SMALLER increase in HP and any increase in torque above 5252 has to have a corresponding LARGER increase in HP?
Say for example you add 10 ft/lbs at 2000 RPM that's an increase of 3.8 HP. If you add 10 ft/lbs at 3500 RPM that's 6.6 HP. Add 10 ft/lbs at 5252 RPM and you add 10 HP. Add 10 ft/lbs at 6000 RPM and you add 11.4 HP and if you add 10 ft/lbs at 9000 RPM you add 17.1 HP.
So under 5252 RPM isn't it impossible to add more HP than you do TQ? (at any given point anyway, not averaging the whole curve). And anywhere over 5252 RPM it's impossible to add more TQ than you do HP? Just a hypothesis.
So adding 50 tq and 30 hp is more likely for a low revver like a 300
(TQ * RPM) / 5252 = HP
For instance:
250 TQ @ 1000 RPMS = 47hp
250 TQ @ 2000 RPMS = 95hp
250 TQ @ 3000 RPMs = 142hp
250 TQ @ 4000 RPMs = 190hp
So on and so on.
In that sense, you could theoritically not gain a single foot pound maximum torque, but if you normally dropped off after 3000 RPMs and now with upgrades you can sustain 250 to 4000 RPMs, you've just gained 50HP.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,021
Likes: 4
From: Almost Heaven
The 4.0 makes a vehicle feel light. It's a fast little booger, very strong and rev happy. With that said, I wouldn't want a 4.0 in a hard working work truck. It would do fine in a Ford Ranger if you could fit it, though. I LOVE the 4.0L. Good motor. And buildable. The 300 makes a lot more torque than the 4.0 and makes it at one thousand RPM less, too. The 300 is just a better truck motor.
Edit; Justin, I wasn't answering for you, just adding to what I think you'll say! ha ha! Sorry if it looked like I was answering for you.
Edit; Justin, I wasn't answering for you, just adding to what I think you'll say! ha ha! Sorry if it looked like I was answering for you.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Oh, no, didn't think that at all. =P
Yeah, the 4.0L is a work of art, I love it and swear by it. But to answer your question 91Bronc, I borrowed my brother's jeep for a few weeks while both my wife and my vehicles were down for repairs. I loved driving that thing and the power was just to die for. I floored it every light I had the chance at and both my wife and I seriously considered getting one.
Well, since then I got the 4bbl swap done and after I finally got it all tuned how I wanted it, I had my brother drive it after we got back from the hills. He thought it felt amazing, and while driving his jeep I, well, didn't quite think it was as powerful as I remember. It actually made me miss the Bronco.
It got up to speed about the same, but I could feel that even though the horsepower was starting to become comparable, the 300 dominated in torque. It caught me by surprise.
Yeah, the 4.0L is a work of art, I love it and swear by it. But to answer your question 91Bronc, I borrowed my brother's jeep for a few weeks while both my wife and my vehicles were down for repairs. I loved driving that thing and the power was just to die for. I floored it every light I had the chance at and both my wife and I seriously considered getting one.
Well, since then I got the 4bbl swap done and after I finally got it all tuned how I wanted it, I had my brother drive it after we got back from the hills. He thought it felt amazing, and while driving his jeep I, well, didn't quite think it was as powerful as I remember. It actually made me miss the Bronco.
It got up to speed about the same, but I could feel that even though the horsepower was starting to become comparable, the 300 dominated in torque. It caught me by surprise.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,021
Likes: 4
From: Almost Heaven
I know, I'd like to get one. Stupid things sit too low from the factory though, they don't look good unless it has a four to six inch lift and sitting on at least 31'' tires!
I just don't understand why Jeep makes these things sit so low from the factory. Well, I guess you were right Justin - it's a family vehicle so I guess it isn't supposed to sit real high, but jeez. These things should be able to fit 31's from the factory, at least. It's a JEEP.
Oh and Justin, some guy parked his Jeep next to my truck. The Jeep was obviously lifted (I don't know, maybe 4''?) and sitting on what looked like 31'' tires. The Jeep deffinitely dominated my truck with ground clearance, but not by a WHOLE lot. He had me with the undercarage clearance.
It shouldn't take a 4'' lift to barely defeat a 2wd F-150 with a body lift.
It was nice being able to visually compare the two vehicles though. The Jeep sure looked sharp.
I just don't understand why Jeep makes these things sit so low from the factory. Well, I guess you were right Justin - it's a family vehicle so I guess it isn't supposed to sit real high, but jeez. These things should be able to fit 31's from the factory, at least. It's a JEEP.
Oh and Justin, some guy parked his Jeep next to my truck. The Jeep was obviously lifted (I don't know, maybe 4''?) and sitting on what looked like 31'' tires. The Jeep deffinitely dominated my truck with ground clearance, but not by a WHOLE lot. He had me with the undercarage clearance.
It shouldn't take a 4'' lift to barely defeat a 2wd F-150 with a body lift.
It was nice being able to visually compare the two vehicles though. The Jeep sure looked sharp.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
how long for engine swap?
I have put away July 17, 18, 19 for the project.