300I6 Powered
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: Lathrop, MO
Between them 70Torino429 and 91Bronc300 have it mostly right. In stock form the 300 will not last at high rpm. Partly because the valve train was not designed and built for that range and partly because the lower end was built heavy.
Use a tightly balanced forged crank, matched light weight performance connecting rods, matched pistons on the bottom end. The valve train needs dual or beehive springs, solid lifters (at high rpms hydraulic lifters tend to have major problems), heavier screw in rocker studs, performance rockers (ie not stamped but don't need to be roller), stronger pushrods. Match the cam the target rpm range.
The head becomes a major bottleneck for high rpm. The stock u-flow does not breath well as we all know. Heads without air injection are a slightly better choice since they have a little more to work with for blending the bowls and openning the runners, but not much. Forced induction is probably the best bet for overcoming this issue and comes with a host of it's own issues that have to be addressed.
Whether naturally aspirated or forced induction there is another issue that has to be addressed for a 300 to reliable rev to 6000+rpm's...cylinder seal. The 300 in well known for blowing head gaskets. O-rings, fire rings (yes they are similiar but very different applications), custom composite gaskets, studs, etc have been tried with varying levels of success. So be ready to replace head gaskets fairly regularly. I haven't see that anyone has tried oversized studs for heavier clamping pressures.
So, yes a 300 can be built to rev in the 6000+ range but it isn't cheap. In stock form it won't do it. If you don't do it right all it will do is self distruct.
Use a tightly balanced forged crank, matched light weight performance connecting rods, matched pistons on the bottom end. The valve train needs dual or beehive springs, solid lifters (at high rpms hydraulic lifters tend to have major problems), heavier screw in rocker studs, performance rockers (ie not stamped but don't need to be roller), stronger pushrods. Match the cam the target rpm range.
The head becomes a major bottleneck for high rpm. The stock u-flow does not breath well as we all know. Heads without air injection are a slightly better choice since they have a little more to work with for blending the bowls and openning the runners, but not much. Forced induction is probably the best bet for overcoming this issue and comes with a host of it's own issues that have to be addressed.
Whether naturally aspirated or forced induction there is another issue that has to be addressed for a 300 to reliable rev to 6000+rpm's...cylinder seal. The 300 in well known for blowing head gaskets. O-rings, fire rings (yes they are similiar but very different applications), custom composite gaskets, studs, etc have been tried with varying levels of success. So be ready to replace head gaskets fairly regularly. I haven't see that anyone has tried oversized studs for heavier clamping pressures.
So, yes a 300 can be built to rev in the 6000+ range but it isn't cheap. In stock form it won't do it. If you don't do it right all it will do is self distruct.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
LOL I was just joking about the old man thing, I think thats what the Ford people thought back then, because everybody wanted a V8, and they still do. Seems to me like older guys(50+) hate 6 cyl engines.
You know I thought when I put exhaust on my 5.4 that I lost a little torque on the low end, but really I think it just reved more freely, it was a lot faster than it was before, and the RPMs climbed faster than they did before. I think it was just a seat of the pants thing and that a dyno would show the same amount of torque below 2000 RPM that it had before the exhaust was installed, and way more power above 2000 RPM, at least in my truck.
I'll drive my truck for a while when I get it back before I put exhaust on it, and I will report if I feel any loss of power when I have exhaust put on it. I won't have EFI manifolds though because my mechanic didn't think it would work out to well, something about the frame, and the manifolds not fitting between the 4bbl manifold.
You know I thought when I put exhaust on my 5.4 that I lost a little torque on the low end, but really I think it just reved more freely, it was a lot faster than it was before, and the RPMs climbed faster than they did before. I think it was just a seat of the pants thing and that a dyno would show the same amount of torque below 2000 RPM that it had before the exhaust was installed, and way more power above 2000 RPM, at least in my truck.
I'll drive my truck for a while when I get it back before I put exhaust on it, and I will report if I feel any loss of power when I have exhaust put on it. I won't have EFI manifolds though because my mechanic didn't think it would work out to well, something about the frame, and the manifolds not fitting between the 4bbl manifold.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,074
Likes: 1
From: Mass.
You know I thought when I put exhaust on my 5.4 that I lost a little torque on the low end, but really I think it just reved more freely, it was a lot faster than it was before, and the RPMs climbed faster than they did before. I think it was just a seat of the pants thing and that a dyno would show the same amount of torque below 2000 RPM that it had before the exhaust was installed, and way more power above 2000 RPM, at least in my truck.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,021
Likes: 4
From: Almost Heaven
Hard to believe you can't fit the split manifold. I bet you can..
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
From what I have seen the old timers have an attitude like they know the 300 will go to hell and back, but they don't want to drive it there, because it won't do it fast enough or sound good enough doing it for their taste, but to each his own I guess they are products of the muscle car era.
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
From what I have seen the old timers have an attitude like they know the 300 will go to hell and back, but they don't want to drive it there, because it won't do it fast enough or sound good enough doing it for their taste, but to each his own I guess they are products of the muscle car era.
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
I may be slow, but I'm faithful
As much as I like my 300 , at times I wishthe van had a 351 or even a 460 for a little more speed and reserve power.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
From what I have seen the old timers have an attitude like they know the 300 will go to hell and back, but they don't want to drive it there, because it won't do it fast enough or sound good enough doing it for their taste, but to each his own I guess they are products of the muscle car era.
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
I would guess my mechanic didn't really want to go through the trouble of making them fit, it would take him to long I guess. Either that or he didn't think I would have the money to pay his labor charge for making it all fit(still unemployed).
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
No doubt man. Ain't nothin wrong with that.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 2
From: Wahpeton ND
Everyone respects the 300.
Chevy men remark that it is the only good ford engine.
Dodge boys think it is the only thing as tough as the 225 slant six.
Ford guys like it cause it just dont quit.
Everyone over 50 I know hates 6cyl trucks. But when they sit down and reminice everyone of them talks about theyre old F550 or C60 that had a six and how it was a gutless pile, that never let them down. Every single one of them. A 300 ford, or a 292 chevy. A 305 GMC, or a 223 ford. They loved those old trucks. They reminice on how they used to load 300 bushels in a single axle and puts into town @40mph on 0.50 cent gas.
Why oh why cant I have gas at that price. I would trade my 300 for a 390 in 2 seconds.
Chevy men remark that it is the only good ford engine.
Dodge boys think it is the only thing as tough as the 225 slant six.
Ford guys like it cause it just dont quit.
Everyone over 50 I know hates 6cyl trucks. But when they sit down and reminice everyone of them talks about theyre old F550 or C60 that had a six and how it was a gutless pile, that never let them down. Every single one of them. A 300 ford, or a 292 chevy. A 305 GMC, or a 223 ford. They loved those old trucks. They reminice on how they used to load 300 bushels in a single axle and puts into town @40mph on 0.50 cent gas.
Why oh why cant I have gas at that price. I would trade my 300 for a 390 in 2 seconds.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,021
Likes: 4
From: Almost Heaven
Everyone respects the 300.
Chevy men remark that it is the only good ford engine.
Dodge boys think it is the only thing as tough as the 225 slant six.
Ford guys like it cause it just dont quit.
Everyone over 50 I know hates 6cyl trucks. But when they sit down and reminice everyone of them talks about theyre old F550 or C60 that had a six and how it was a gutless pile, that never let them down. Every single one of them. A 300 ford, or a 292 chevy. A 305 GMC, or a 223 ford. They loved those old trucks. They reminice on how they used to load 300 bushels in a single axle and puts into town @40mph on 0.50 cent gas.
Why oh why cant I have gas at that price. I would trade my 300 for a 390 in 2 seconds.
Chevy men remark that it is the only good ford engine.
Dodge boys think it is the only thing as tough as the 225 slant six.
Ford guys like it cause it just dont quit.
Everyone over 50 I know hates 6cyl trucks. But when they sit down and reminice everyone of them talks about theyre old F550 or C60 that had a six and how it was a gutless pile, that never let them down. Every single one of them. A 300 ford, or a 292 chevy. A 305 GMC, or a 223 ford. They loved those old trucks. They reminice on how they used to load 300 bushels in a single axle and puts into town @40mph on 0.50 cent gas.
Why oh why cant I have gas at that price. I would trade my 300 for a 390 in 2 seconds.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,179
Likes: 377
From: Near Los Angeles
"I would trade my 300 for a 390 in 2 seconds."
I've had a 390 for about six years. It is bullet-proof. But, like you say, she does like the petrol. With a 2v carb it is killing me. On trips I carry 57 gallons with me, and that gets me, fully loaded, about 500 miles. I've crossed Baja three times, pulled a trailor across California and Oregon, over the mountains, and she just keeps going--eating like a pig. It is power you pay for.
Since blowing a head gasket I'm burning oil like crazy and will soon be dropping in my 300. With all my mods I don't know quite what to expect. But with the 4v carb and over-size valves, etc., I'm hoping for a peppy ride with plenty of power for towing and hauling, and of course doing burnouts in front of the high school, ha ha.
Also, I'm wondering, and will soon see, what my highly built, tricked out C6 will be like...chirping in all three gears? Or at least from 1st to second. Here are the trans mods:
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></o>
2. made 4 plate low/reverse clutch into a 5 plate setup by machining .150" off the pressure plate snap ring area<o></o>
3. installed Transgo shift kit into your valve body during rebuild<o></o>
4. installed Sonnax Billet R servo setup<o></o>
5. complete rebuild kit with new band, pump bushing, all new frictions, rubber, seals, rings, etc.<o></o>
6. spent a friggin hour plus on that ugly ugly ugly pan of yours... lol it was really bad..pounded out all the dents and then glass beaded it inside out.. had a lot of rust. then painted the pan with Duplicolor Cast Coat Iron color..<o></o>
7. installed E4OD sprag setup.. which includes new race, torrington bearing and new late style clutch/roller set<o></o>
8. changed your servo ratio arm from a J arm to an E arm.. different letter arms multiply the output of the servo at different ratios.. the E arm is very close to the F arm that Ford put in the Cobrajet C6's. <o></o>
9. new adjustable modulator and new modulator hose..
I've had a 390 for about six years. It is bullet-proof. But, like you say, she does like the petrol. With a 2v carb it is killing me. On trips I carry 57 gallons with me, and that gets me, fully loaded, about 500 miles. I've crossed Baja three times, pulled a trailor across California and Oregon, over the mountains, and she just keeps going--eating like a pig. It is power you pay for.
Since blowing a head gasket I'm burning oil like crazy and will soon be dropping in my 300. With all my mods I don't know quite what to expect. But with the 4v carb and over-size valves, etc., I'm hoping for a peppy ride with plenty of power for towing and hauling, and of course doing burnouts in front of the high school, ha ha.
Also, I'm wondering, and will soon see, what my highly built, tricked out C6 will be like...chirping in all three gears? Or at least from 1st to second. Here are the trans mods:
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ring groove.. <o></o>2. made 4 plate low/reverse clutch into a 5 plate setup by machining .150" off the pressure plate snap ring area<o
></o>3. installed Transgo shift kit into your valve body during rebuild<o
></o>4. installed Sonnax Billet R servo setup<o
></o>5. complete rebuild kit with new band, pump bushing, all new frictions, rubber, seals, rings, etc.<o
></o>6. spent a friggin hour plus on that ugly ugly ugly pan of yours... lol it was really bad..pounded out all the dents and then glass beaded it inside out.. had a lot of rust. then painted the pan with Duplicolor Cast Coat Iron color..<o
></o>7. installed E4OD sprag setup.. which includes new race, torrington bearing and new late style clutch/roller set<o
></o>8. changed your servo ratio arm from a J arm to an E arm.. different letter arms multiply the output of the servo at different ratios.. the E arm is very close to the F arm that Ford put in the Cobrajet C6's. <o
></o>9. new adjustable modulator and new modulator hose..
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,208
Likes: 2
From: North Reading Mass
As a member in the over 50 club I have to admit that many of us were raised in a time when sixes were considered inferior to V8s. Detroit gave us very few performance sixes and cheap gas made it worse. Some diehards would build up sixes but most of us would pull the 6 and plunk in the 8. In my youth there were still some straight 8 guys out there who today would probably be 300 fans. They were torque nuts too.
In my experiance the best all around six was probably the AMC 4.0 FI, next would be the 300 FI, followed by the Chrysler 250 flathead, Chevy 250, AMC 2v 258, Mopar 225 2v, and the 223.
The 300 is a better truck engine than the 4.0 but that 4.0 could really fly.
BTW EFI is the best thing that ever happened to the I6 compared to the old 1v carbs.
my $.02
rikard
In my experiance the best all around six was probably the AMC 4.0 FI, next would be the 300 FI, followed by the Chrysler 250 flathead, Chevy 250, AMC 2v 258, Mopar 225 2v, and the 223.
The 300 is a better truck engine than the 4.0 but that 4.0 could really fly.
BTW EFI is the best thing that ever happened to the I6 compared to the old 1v carbs.
my $.02
rikard
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
Restorer, you said you are going to start dropping your engine in tomorrow. You think you will have it done by the end of the weekend?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,021
Likes: 4
From: Almost Heaven
I want to know how a 4BBL and split manifolds does in power and fuel mileage against an EFI 300 with split manifolds and eventually headers? Abandonded has a 4BBL and split mani's but he hasn't calculated his fuel mileage yet. Besides, he has a weird gear ratio. I would like to see two trucks set up the same with minus the EFI and Carb and headers and see how they do.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
Hey Bill. I got some pictures up of the 1979 F-250. This truck will eventually get the propane 300 that's in the 1985 F-250
http://s617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/geweldigaum/
http://s617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/geweldigaum/