Camaro
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 657
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From: brimfield township,OH
I personally don't like the retro styling.I wish VW never started it with the beetle.I'd rather have the original with lots of chrome than these overweight pigs.The only new camaros I've seen were at the dealerships,and they aren't moving.
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 308
Likes: 1
From: Sheridan/W Laffayette, IN
Most of the Camaros I see are up on the stands and in the lots too. All the 2010 Mustangs except maybe 5 are on the lots right now. That is also including the performance Ford store! Also, I also put blame on the Chevy SSR with the Volkswagon Beetle, and might as well throw in the Thunderbird.
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 308
Likes: 1
From: Sheridan/W Laffayette, IN
Here's a good write-up on the three-way comparison between the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger by Car and Driver. It's also in the current issue on the newstand. Essentially, even with less power than the other two, the Mustang beat them both.
2010 Chevy Camaro SS vs. 2010 Ford Mustang GT, 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T - Coupes/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver
2010 Chevy Camaro SS vs. 2010 Ford Mustang GT, 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T - Coupes/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 1
From: Duluth, Mn.
Like I said before, Ford just cheeped out on a few things.
Ford brought out 'The Track Pack'
They're finally tuning the solid rear axle to a point of acceptable handling. With the new 302 coming out, it should be a MUUUUCh better car
Ford brought out 'The Track Pack'
They're finally tuning the solid rear axle to a point of acceptable handling. With the new 302 coming out, it should be a MUUUUCh better car
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
It's interesting that Ford and VW switched the demographics to females on their first retro cars. The Beetle was a hit by any measure, but the Thunderbird was a dud. The PT Cruiser and Chevy HHR were hits (I owned an HHR, and we loved it), but the SSR was a dud. The Mustang was a hit, but so far the sales numbers on the Challenger and Camaro have been dissappointing. I doubt that either will catch-up to the Mustang in terms of annual sales.
That being said, we love our Challenger R/T. It's a lot of fun to drive.
Peace,
-Doraville
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
The T-bird retro was a sales dud for one major reason.
No backseat.
The original '55-'57 did not sell that many. When they put in a backseat in '58, sales multiplied. Two seat cars are a very limited market. What is the average sales volume of the Corvette, over its entire history? Under 20,000 units annually, one of the reasons they still use fiberglass bodies, low volume tooling costs vs. stamping dies.
Magazines bashed it for being "slow". I call BS on that. Ford never marketed it as a Corvette/Viper class of car. The Jaguar-developed V-8 was more than adequate for a "Touring" car. I dont recall the Lincoln LS or Jag S-type being bashed for the same reason, same engine, heavier cars.
PT Cruiser at first and later the HHR were successful because they are cute and cheap. V-6 Mustangs are also inexpensive. The New Beetle, however, looks awkward, IMO, and modern VW reliability is questionable. And, the engine is in the wrong end of the car and cooled by the wrong substance.
Jim
No backseat.
The original '55-'57 did not sell that many. When they put in a backseat in '58, sales multiplied. Two seat cars are a very limited market. What is the average sales volume of the Corvette, over its entire history? Under 20,000 units annually, one of the reasons they still use fiberglass bodies, low volume tooling costs vs. stamping dies.
Magazines bashed it for being "slow". I call BS on that. Ford never marketed it as a Corvette/Viper class of car. The Jaguar-developed V-8 was more than adequate for a "Touring" car. I dont recall the Lincoln LS or Jag S-type being bashed for the same reason, same engine, heavier cars.
PT Cruiser at first and later the HHR were successful because they are cute and cheap. V-6 Mustangs are also inexpensive. The New Beetle, however, looks awkward, IMO, and modern VW reliability is questionable. And, the engine is in the wrong end of the car and cooled by the wrong substance.
Jim
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
He, he... that reliability rating is relative. The new Beetle is extremely reliable relative to the old one...
I don't care for the new Beetle myself either. I have a daughter turning 16 this year, and she has her heart set on one. That TDI is a decent engine, and gets better fuel mileage than a Prius.
I wish I could talk her into a V6 Mustang...
-DV
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
He, he... that reliability rating is relative. The new Beetle is extremely reliable relative to the old one...
I don't care for the new Beetle myself either. I have a daughter turning 16 this year, and she has her heart set on one. That TDI is a decent engine, and gets better fuel mileage than a Prius.
-DV
I don't care for the new Beetle myself either. I have a daughter turning 16 this year, and she has her heart set on one. That TDI is a decent engine, and gets better fuel mileage than a Prius.
-DV
The TDI is the only VW worth considering today. I'd take one over a hybrid. In the Beetle bodystyle, they are not too expensive used. Golf and Jetta versions are too high.
Jim
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Ever owned an old Beetle? There are lots of endearing things you could say about them, but reliable (relative to anything) is not one of them.
I still like the old Beetles though, mainly because of the good memories that they bring back (if I repress the memories of swallowed valves and bent transaxle shift forks).
I had a '73 Superbeetle with A/C. I wish I'd kept it... I understand that it's one of the most collectible ones now.
-Peace,
-DV
I still like the old Beetles though, mainly because of the good memories that they bring back (if I repress the memories of swallowed valves and bent transaxle shift forks).
I had a '73 Superbeetle with A/C. I wish I'd kept it... I understand that it's one of the most collectible ones now.
-Peace,
-DV
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Yes,
'67
'68
and related,
'72 Bus
currently,
'69 Karmann Ghia
If purchased new, or near-new, and maintained by the book, they were better than the competition of the day. Ive replaced Fiat blocks from thrown rods. Never experienced VW swallowed valves or bent shift forks. The bus did wear out its transaxle, but the failure was gradual, plenty of warning. It would pop out of gear, a sign of sloppy bearings. I put abother 10,000 miles on it that way before replacing the trans.
Back on topic. Ive seen many Challengers on the road and not one new Camaro. I saw my first 2010 Mustang on Friday. I dont particularly like what Ford did to the outside, but didnt get a chance to see the interior. The Camaro looks better IMO, that is, more retro, inside than out.
Jim
'67
'68
and related,
'72 Bus
currently,
'69 Karmann Ghia
If purchased new, or near-new, and maintained by the book, they were better than the competition of the day. Ive replaced Fiat blocks from thrown rods. Never experienced VW swallowed valves or bent shift forks. The bus did wear out its transaxle, but the failure was gradual, plenty of warning. It would pop out of gear, a sign of sloppy bearings. I put abother 10,000 miles on it that way before replacing the trans.
Back on topic. Ive seen many Challengers on the road and not one new Camaro. I saw my first 2010 Mustang on Friday. I dont particularly like what Ford did to the outside, but didnt get a chance to see the interior. The Camaro looks better IMO, that is, more retro, inside than out.
Jim
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,440
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It beat the Camaro by a comfortable amount to in C&D's comparo... 16 points. The Challenger was only 3 points behind the Camaro in the same comparo. The Camaro was closer to last place than it was to first.
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
I like the 2005-09 Mustang... not all that crazy about the new one. It's hard to improve on perfection, and the 05-09 is close to perfect (IMO).
My wife was all set to get an '09 Mustang, but then the Challenger came out and she saw one. She really needed the extra room, as we still have two kids at home.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people seem to like the new Camaro, and that's fine with me. I hope they sell a ton of them.
My wife was all set to get an '09 Mustang, but then the Challenger came out and she saw one. She really needed the extra room, as we still have two kids at home.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people seem to like the new Camaro, and that's fine with me. I hope they sell a ton of them.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 967
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From: effort,pa
ya, i went to the dealer as soon as i heard they had one, just had to see it. i spent time wondering how wacked to **** the designers heads must be to think this is a nice car, it is way to ugly to ever own or drive and as if the outside aint bad enough the interior tops it, way ugly interior... when something is this bad it dont matter if it makes 800hp, that aint everything. i'll just buy a reguler gt stang and throw on a charger and exoust. the camaro is limited by that junk irs rear so ford will just build a quicker stang, not a hard job for them.. hope the new one dies like the last one, then maybe they can burry this dusty coffin...