What's really killing Detroit

The Chevrolet Malibu leads its category in initial quality, according to J.D. Power and Associates.

Gripe: Asian automakers sell more reliable products.

Fact: Detroit has lagged Toyota and Honda, but Ford has finally closed the gap.

Consumer Reports now considers the reliability of Ford Motor Co.'s cars (leaving aside its large trucks and SUVs) to be about as good as those of Toyota and Honda.

Chrysler has improved too, but it has been overshadowed by much bigger improvements at its rivals.

Consumer Reports considers GM reliability to be much improved, but it's not as consistent as that of other brands, like Ford.

Fat executive paychecks

GM CEO Rick Wagoner leads a company in trouble, but could anyone else have done better?

At $8.9 million, the total annual compensation for Rick Wagoner, chief executive of GM, is slightly below average for a leader of an S&P 500 company.

Ford's CEO Alan Mulally makes considerably more than Wagoner. He'll pull in about $12 million this year. Mulally's been to the Hill, too, but he has publicly said that Ford doesn't need bail-out cash. He's there because if GM or Chrysler goes down the cascading financial impact would be bad for the entire industry.

Considering that Mulally was hired from the outside to get Ford back into shape, and that Ford is now the strongest of the Big Three automakers, it could be said that he deserves that money.

Chrysler, now a privately held company, isn't required to divulge how much its CEO, Bob Nardelli, gets paid.

 

Very good points here.

I tend to think that much of the current problems of the Big 3 are due to UAW, more than anything. I read a report a few years ago that stated that out of the total purchase cost of a new GM vehicle, over $3,000 goes toward employee pension and health funds. While I certainly believe an american auto worker needs a solid wage and benefit package, I believe the unions have been sucking them dry.

Assuming that $3,000 figure is still accurate...think of how much MORE car you are actually buying when you buy from Japan? Can't knock it, they make great cars...but so do we now.

And to make everything worse, everyone's afraid to buy, thinking the manufacturer of their potential new car may not exist in a year...not good...not good at all....

 

Most Japanese cars are as expensive as their American counterpart and may actually have less equipment on them. For instance, a bare bones Honda civic runs about 15k retail and doesn't even have A/C. A bare Focus runs about $14,500 and has A/C, intermittant wipers and some other goodies as standard equipment. You can also negotiate the price of a Ford, try getting a discount from Honda. It'll be minimal at best.

That means that the Japanese automakers are much more profitable and sell us less for more. I'm not knocking profits, they keep Americans gainfully employed.

Tim

 

Consumer perceptions always lag reality by years.

Ford will need to build cars on Toyota/Honda quality levels or better over the next 5-10 years consistently to change consumer perceptions.

Pretty much any new or significantly refreshed Ford model launched 2006 or later has been at or near the top of the auto industry on quality.

New Fords are reliable, and just as I said several months ago, I think Ford will actually surpass Toyota/Honda in quality within the next two years.

Yes, SMIGGS, I have a crystal ball...it's called common sense.

 

hehe, couldn't agree more... I love hearing people telling me how their honda or toyota is so reliable... I have yet to meet a car person that actually drives a toyota. I betcha every single one of them will answer the question "how does an internal combustion engine work" with "well you put gas in this hole and exhaust comes out that hole". And then they'll tell you how much better their camry is.

 

Your right about the lack of people who drive toyota's. I was driveing about maybe 4-5 months ago and was counting how many toyotas i would see compaired to other cars. I was supprised to count a lot less toyotas than i thought i would see. There were way more saturns, ford's, chevys and so on. I dont know where toyota get there figures from. unless there is a place in the US that is full of toyota's. I did her ages ago on a nissan forum that the reason for their high figures is because they combine 2/3 cars that are built on the same chassis.

 

one word sort of....UAW...


they had their day in the sun and it's over now...i see no reason that the market can't determine what these people make just like the rest of us...i surly don't have people at work that lobby in DC and work to get me more money....i get more money by working hard and doing a good job....thats the way it should be so cut out the Union and move on...

problem solved...

 

I think I should've written that different as I see how it could have come across wrong, and I think you took it different than what I meant. By car people, I meant car enthusiasts, people that have been through 20+ cars and have experienced different brands out there, have some mechanical understanding and so on. The people I meet driving toyotas are usually the "need transportation from A to B" people. If you were driving across country, I could see why you didn't see these people; they're the kind who will get on a plane and make their trip. Not me... Journey > Destination

 

Yeah i see what you mean. like you say if ya a petrol head or even know anything about a car you prob wouldnt be driveing a toyota.

 

You're kidding yourself. Ford might have temporarily inched closer to Honda and Toyota in initial quality but in long term quality they are still miles behind.
Just look at used car values and that will give you some real info.

Ford is on the brink of bankruptcy and for good reason. Will they even be able to stay in business next year without a bailout?

When your workforce is constantly looking over it's shoulders for pink slips quality can't be far behind. Honda and Toyota are in great shape because they have built quality vehicles for years. It's really that simple, build a vehicle that's dependable and it will sell.

My salesman at work is a Ford guy. I was looking at his Ford SUV the other day and asked him how he liked it. He said Fords are great till they hit 50,000 then things start rattling and falling off them.
He said his wifes Honda is a much better built vehicle.

People aren't stupid. They know who builds the best vehicles. It's going to take a decade of perfection from Ford to lose the stigma that they build poor quality cars.

 

You are obviously one of the many sheep that reads Consumer Reports and believes it to be gospel... American cars are as good or better than the imports. If Ford and the other domestics had the benefit of all the loopholes in our tax structure they would outsell the foreigns. I know...they are made here...heard it a million times! They still import parts from overseas and declare grossly reduced costs to avoid being taxed fairly. And most Americans are too stupid to realize what is really going on!

 

hmmm maybe there all gas guzzlers,there expensive as hell,an for the uaw,i think thats also a big part of it,for example i have a part time job where senority is how much ur offered to work,and wouldn u kno it the oldest and highest paying guys are the laziest and less motivated to get something done,im not sure how that ranslates to auto union workers but it cant be too far off

 

Maybe its because you don't surround yourself with a group of people from diverse jobs and backgrounds -- or where you live? There are some parts of this country where there aren't nearly as many Japanese cars, mostly rural and industrial areas. About half the people I know have at least one import brand.

You'll get the same response from most buyers of any brand. Camry owners I've known don't like the car just for its quality, but for how the dealers treat them. People can say what they want about Ford's quality being good, and it is. But... they still have major problems with how dealers treat people, how much dealers tell customers a problem is "normal" and long term reliability scores.... where's JD Power?

 

You're in the state of Michigan right? The rest of the country doesn't have nearly as many people working for the auto industry. I can assure you the view from other parts of the country is much more mixed between domestic and import brands.

 

Nah im in virginia. Thats why im wondering if its just this area that has a lack of toyota's i see many more imports like VW,Bmw,Audi,Mercedes than i do jap cars. I am about 10 miles from the city so this prob has a bit to do with that but i mainly work out in the sticks and around the mountain areas and most cars i will see will be US brands over Imports. Only really see the toyota,Nissan and honda's on the interstate.