I wanted to add a few things:

1. In regards to quality, I think a majority of U.S. auto workers of the big 3 take great pride in the product they help produce. There is a lot of history and honor, I feel, in producing and American vehicle, it was us/they who set the standard for all other manufacuring (see H.Ford) so I would hate to see a failure of any one company or see it bought by outside forces. I also think and imagine the Union realizes they may have some say in keeping the employer afloat...consessions on both parts...it better than being without a job.

2.What is is that we preceive as quality when speaking about a vehicle?

I'll give an example (and not from a magazine, but my peronal fleet):

The panels on my wife's Honda all line up extremely well, not perfect, as I have used a micrometer to measure them (i know;too much spare time), but WAY, WAY MUCH better and more consistant than my newest Ford.; in fact there isn't one panel on my newest Ford that lines up consistantly with another.

That, to me, is an example of quality, or at the very least attention to detail.

 

This is how they come up with $70/hr
health care (so when a retired worker gets sick)
dental (so when a retired worker's teeth fall out)
optical (so when a retired worker goes blind)
all other miscellaneous benefits (so when a retired worker wants something)
deposits to the pension plan (so a retired person can buy a boat)
deposits to the state unemployment fund (so when the the real worker gets laid off)
cost of printing and distributing paycheck/paystub (becuase we don't trust banks for direct deposit)
training (to train workers how to strike)
company supplied safety equipment (to protect workers on strike)
a portion of the heat, cooling, lighting, water (cold up North?)
a portion of the "overhead" floor space in the plant (cafeterias, locker room, bathrooms, etc) (can't eat lunch at a picnic table?)
toilet paper and soap (why do you need 4 ply when 2 ply works just fine?)
janitors/custodians (bring in a retired worker to sweep the floor)
I'm certain there are a dozen other things I can't think of

Now see that...I try to explain how they come up with that made up $70/hr and people still have to take jabs. You want to hate the UAW fine, but leave the jabs at the workers out of it. After a reply like this I can truly see that my help and info is no longer needed at this site.

 

I've also personally seen workers slacking off in front of the plant manager, with reporters in tow, and the workers don't get so much as rolled eyes from the manager. I have no reason to believe if they are brazen enough to do with when reporters are touring the plant that they don't do it when they aren't.

 

Yeahhh But you don't see a TV driving down the road ether....

 

Yeah i see them all the time on the back of trucks just bought from bestbuy.

 

True but least I do not have that box store in my neighborhood

 

As you can see (Below) i am a Ford lover BUT i also like "Yota's" i have a Matrix in the family great car great mileage 26 Mixted, My neighbor has nothing but Yota's a 98 Camrey 262,000 Zero Probs, 96 T-100 work truck 189,000 Zero probs, and a 06 Tundra.

The reason i wont buy a new ford truck is its not for me i don't like Mod motors the current F-150 plat form is to big for me. "My truck is paid off"

why buy when you can restore for less,

My truck Yearly cost Oil changes,INS,Gas, $2,928 +or-

 

Here's more information:

Auto Bailout Ignores Excessive Labor Costs

How is it that Big 3 UAW workers make 3 times the average compensation once all overhead is calculated than the average American once all overhead is calculated? Anwer: the UAW. Compare the big 3 earnings to those working for Japanese manufacturers if there is any doubt. They have plant overhead, benefits overhead, etc. pay their workers a good, fair wage yet it costs them a third as much for labor to build a vehicle.

I'm all for someone making as much as they can. During gravy times prior to the dot-com bubble bursting I could make as much as $150/hour for consulting work. For the same work after the bust it was $40/hour. Now, had I gone out looking for consulting work at $150/hour I would not have found such work. The same applies to any free market. If a wage model is unsustainable sooner or later the wages will need to come in line with the free market value of the wages, or the companies go bust. But, the UAW enters the picture, with their huge campaign contributions and politicians, rather than allowing the free market to work, ask the US taxpayers to bailout an unsustainable model. The companies need to be allowed to work in a free market, forcing consessions, or fold. The government never bailed out any of my jobs, it should not for others as well, especially since they aren't willing to make concessions.

The quality issue... say what you want about quality. The fact is Ford builds great trucks, but the way they handle service just flat out stinks. Quality isn't just about building a vehicle, its about standing behind it. You can have two vehicles, one Japanese and another American. If both have the same problem and the American manufacturer handles the service poorly while the Japanese manufacturer handles it well that's a quality issue. The customer will perceive that the Japanese vehicle is a better quality vehicle based on his/her overall experience.

JD Power quality awards are not based soley on the number of problems a customer experiences, but also on customer satisfaction. When I took my F150 to the dealership with an inch and a half of play on the differential... I got the standard "its normal" line that so many Ford owners get when there is a problem. I've love the overall fit, finish and quality of my F150. All the panels are lined up well on mine, and the truck is great. But, after my recent dealership experience can I say I'm a satisfied customer? No. I'm having to find a dealership who will handle the problem or fork over the money to fix it myself. A warranty, when not properly honored is worthless and is a poor quality indicator.

These words about quality are coming from one of the biggest Ford fans on the planet (me) -- I own a 2000 Ranger, a 2006 F150 and a 2004 F250. Plus I've had many other Fords since I first started driving in 1985. Just because I'm a Ford fan doesn't mean I should ignore problems with Ford, or its vehicles. Doing so doesn't help them, or me. Its my money to spend as I see fit, and the next vehicle I buy I'm shopping around and will do a lot of homework about quality and service before I buy. I hope Ford wins my money and my continued loyalty but they need to work for it instead of counting on blind loyalty.

It should be this way with any purchase someone makes. Just as any investment advisor will tell you to never buy stocks based on sentiment, the same applies to purchases of goods and services.

 

GPS systems.
Drop down DVD screens.
Center console screens.
Screens on the back of headrests.

I see them all the time. Only difference between them and a tv is a tuner. I bet 95% of them, including the OEM units, aren't made in the USA.

 

I agree completely, except with my latest Ford, I have had a wonderful Ford experience, but now its not the dealer, who keeps fixing it over and over again for the same problems, but rather the fact that it is the same problems over and over. My service has been good, they even comiserate (sp) my problem and aknowledge it will never go away.

Obviously, had I known this ahead of time I wouldn't have spent my hard earned cash on it, just to end up with a non-reliable, worrisome vehicle. It pains me a lot because its basically set up perfect, unfortunatley I can't count on it. I am also taking it to the dealer who seems to have the best reputation for miles around, but as they even told me, your problems will keep reoccuring as long as you own it.

Man I need spell check

 

I am concerned mainly about keeping what little industry we have left in this country, and my main reason for posting that comment in the way that I did was to get 09 Platinum to look at his own vehicle purchases before questioning someones patriotism based on theirs.

 

Its all goods jllang2

Ken, your post 83 was a great post, especially paragraph 5.

 

Thanks man, I really appreciate that.


And I really mean what I say about being a huge Ford fan. Forgot to mention the Ford Freestar we have in the driveway. My first car was a Mustang. Had 67 and 75 Ford trucks, 2 Escorts and 1 Aerostar. So far Ford hasn't let me down, quality wise, but this last dealership experience really disappointed me.

Here's the problem with Ford so far as warranty work goes... do y'all know that if a dealer does too much warranty work Ford essentially puts them on "warranty watch", and it can cost them big time! In other words, Ford gives their dealers a disincentive to help their customers. That 2/3rd's extra labor we're paying for in American brands... that would cover a lot of warranty work and lead to more customer satisfaction.

 

Instead of bailing out the industry, why can't the goverment just dissolve the UAW contracts?

 

That's what many would like to see but the government can't just sep in and do it. If the big three went bankrupt then they could close down, reopen and reorganize without the unions.

I don't want to see a bailout for the big three.