I can't help but post

I, too, used to pride myself on being "patriotic" by trying to limit my purchases to America owned companies (notice I didn't say made) or American assembled products...but things change...and they've changed a lot...it's world market now and isolationism just won't ever happen again.

You either adapt or fail, change; although against human nature, is inevitable.

We are seening and economic evolution of sorts and the Big 3 are a perfect example. GM's outlook is bleak, at best. Ford has a little more liquidity for another 2 years, maybe. Chrysler is entertaining a reasonable offer from Honda, which would be good for Honda giving them a spot in the truck market.

If GM fails, as it should, Ford has a huge oportunity to make themselves much more powerful.

I agree that the UAW has a big impact on their woes. At an average of $70.48/hr thats about 140+K a year for some guy/gal who puts screws in a piece of metal of plastic. Good for them,bad for us. Teachers with masters degrees make about $35.00/hr as an example of our countries priorities. A car is much more important than an education. And we wonder why so many other countries are producing the worlds top engineers, physcians (India),mathmaticians, and thus the newest technology. India will soon pass us in the world of medical technology.

We pride ourselves on an economic system that is supposed to reward hard work and...capitalism, yet we are willing to bail out bad choices with hard workers money.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder, we still have freedom to make choices based on our decision, not someone elses. In the world market, for automobiles and quality and reliablity I try, sometimes unsucessfully, to spend money I work hard for on what I deem the best choice...I used to buy only American cars, but once I ventured out to a Japanese car I found that I can no longer discount their place in my decsion making process the quality was/is so superior to my American vehicles is makes me ashamed to compare the two. I makes me wonder why they can produce something that is so much "better" in comparison. I mean we should be doing that, especially at $70/hr.

I have had and still own a couple American vehicles that have been realatively trouble free, and one that was amazing for its reliability and trouble free 100K miles (Jeep Grand Cherokee), but I have had NO problems with any of my Japanese cars/truck. German is another story .

I always pay cash for my vehicles so I also have to save a while between cars and as ANY vehicle is a loosing investment I want to get the most out of my dollar. When I buy something that dosen't perform to either my expectations and as advertised then I think I've been ripped off and I get mad and I hold grudge.

A vehicle costs a lot of money to me, maybe some of you have money trees growing in your back yard so it's inconsiquential wether or not you get quality and you can afford to throw it at what ever brand you like that year.

I don't have that kind of cash and if I did I think I'd still feel the same way. Maybe if I had a UAW job?

Let it begin

 

Can't stand it any longer!. Would someone like to talk about the difference between Assembled and Manufactured, and the word we use to describe both together, 'BUILT' ?

 

Are you joking about the $70hr wages?? I charge $30 an hour for my labor and i spent years in my trades and training to get where i am for that $30hr wage. Now if they are paying a factory worker $70 an hour to put together a car/truck then I am changing jobs. I have worked in Assembly before and was on a pitiful $8.50 an hour and it was pretty technical work compared to building a truck. Now if this is true then it's no surprise that the big 3 are in trouble.

 

Associated press yesterday in our local paper. Average UAW employee hourly rate. Now that may or may not have included some beneifts, but irregardless it's pretty good cash for and assembly line job.

 

There are certian standards that must be met to have a product labeled.

For example in Swiss Watches they have to be assembled in Switzerland to say Swiss Made on the dial and a certian % of parts made or machined there, but that doesn't preclude the internal parts and so on from being made, manufactured, elsewhere. They have acutual laws governing the advertising of "Swiss Made".

I do not know what constitues what here in the U.S.A.

As for basics "assembled" means put together here, but that dosen't mean the parts were made here, but maybe they were.

"Manufactured "refers to machining, literally a part being made here. However if that part has components made elsewhere it can still be "manufactured" here with a sprinkling of parts in it from elsewhere...

"Built"...I guess it means (as you said) either, or both...but more like assembled.

Heck I don't know...maybe your whole question was retorical and I just realized that.

 

That is what the average union employee costs the company to remain on the payroll. It is a combination of wages, health plan contributions, 401k matches, Life insurance contributions, and any other expense that directly benefits the employee. The employee will only see about a third or less of that as take-home pay.

 

As my $35 dollar figure for educators also includes.; Well it actually is $34.90 and that includes medical for a family of 4, dental, vision, union dues, state retirement. About half ends up in the pocket to spend.

 

You did fine job explaining that. Kudos to you!!

I also think that manufactured means created. if you add parts to it, isn't it now assembled? I'm sure that transmission parts are made somewhere else than the plant the transmission is assembled in.

My question was a little rhetorical, but applies to how many car buyers look at 'American-made'. Unless there is a car by any manufacturer that is 100% assembled in the US and 100% US sourced parts, The car is 'American Assembled'. This is where I feel different about the foriegn owned companies. I don't really care if they are foreign owned. If they are in the US and assembling cars with equivalent parts contents, the they are 'American Assembled' too.

Nobody has to answer this but......

If a Foreign owned car company produced a 100% assembled and 100% US sourced part content car or truck, would you call it an American-Made car, or is it still a foreign car?

 

Ha ha I'll quote myself...I can't remeber it, that's age I guess but I wonder assuming that it is labor cost at $70/hr for the worker, where is that money going?...ME? I think I'd like to know what the Union dues are and what they get out of the worker? My Union is WORTHLESS!!!, but we have to be a member and I give them $100+ a month. That same article had a compasion to Toyota (I think) and the benefits package was basically the same.

They had it broken down by how much of each vehicles cost went to pay for the employees...and that's where I remember thw huge difference.

Anyhow, I used educators as a specific example because WE ARE loosing the battle of turning out scholars, the same people that used to invent stuff so other countries could mass produce it for us...I'm afraid soon it'll be the other way around.

What was this threads topic again?

 

Bczolone come on! talk about off topic. We was talking about why Mcdonalds fries taste so dam good.

 

Oh yeah, the reason that the fries are so good, is because or the fryer; which of course is made in France. Their expertise in taking our invention and improving on it shows how well they know the taste bud. The quality of fries also depends on the oil and how it was hand crushed, by foot, in an oak barrel sealed with Bazooka chewing gum. That oil, crushed with care from American grown soy beans show the quality that goes into producing such a fine example of a potato, which of course is grow in Idaho and Russia. The maker of the fries seems to eminate from a well trained teenager who came here from the south and of course cares only about our satisfaction.

Now are they really just poisoning us?...One must ponder the idea that its all just a big conspiracy.

 

This is how they come up with $70/hr
health care
dental
optical
all other miscellaneous benefits
deposits to the pension plan
deposits to the state unemployment fund
cost of printing and distributing paycheck/paystub
training
company supplied safety equipment
a portion of the heat, cooling, lighting, water
a portion of the "overhead" floor space in the plant (cafeterias, locker room, bathrooms, etc)
toilet paper and soap
janitors/custodians
I'm certain there are a dozen other things I can't think of

 

Without having a lot of time to research it I'd venture a guess that is significatly more than a non-union job of the same caliber in terms of dollars.

I am pretty sure, but don't know first hand that a non-union auto worker also has a similar benefit package.

I find that amazing, because my previous and soon to be once again job included all of that, plus a company truck for personal use, and an expense account and 60K salary (minus taxes, and S.S. or anything else I opted into ie. TSA) and the boss says it costs the company about 120K for me, includeing all the support staff and such...but of course that job there's no union...can't wait for that.

I get sick when I think of all my money that went to my current union and all that money they donate to politicans I don't favor.

 

So is this an accurate translation? I have a lot of respect for those who build cars...but Unions is a different story.

 

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