i have a friend at work whos wife just baught a camry, she prieviously had a camry that was built in japan. he says the new car is terribly made, the pieces dont fit right on the inside and rides terrible. he now wishes he would have bought a milan like my wifes. american cars are better people wont let go of the perception that foreign cars are better! you can not buy a an accord or camry with awd, and for people who live in the snow belt its a neccesity! i kind of hope the non-union workers in the south who build the jap cars, the substandard pay and benefits are finally cathing up to toy and honda!by the way has any body read "rising sun" by michael criton i already know what you are going to say, its only fiction! but he researches his books to no end. they are laughing hysterically about our automakers troubles, when they fold they will have us by the ***** and it seems like no one in america cares! these factories built the jeeps, tanks and plants that brought us to victory over the the people that wanted us wiped off the planet only sixty years ago. a jap finance minister said after we rebuilt them and taught them everything we know, that maybe we cant beat them by force we will beat them financially! why do you think half of america is owned by japan,check it out it will scare you! the people hate us, make fun of us behind our backs! did you know if you buy an american car in japan the goverment audits you, your neighbors will not talk to you and you will be an outcast! i wish that would happen here if you buy a foreign car! we have no patriotism only a me-first attitude and it going to bite us in the keester someday! december 7 is coming up how many traitors will buy a jap or german car on that day!! traitors!! after reading these posts and listening to the elected officials who said let the automakers die, i have to rant! are we going to have any industry in this country anymore? everything will be imported if they have their way! a service economy is that what people want, everybody working at walmart!

 

well my last two ford vehicles must have slipped through the cracks. They have been far from reliable. Last vehicle was an 05 ford explorer, traded it in because i was tired of having to pay a car note and pay for a rental car, bought a 07 expedition, its already been in the shop 6 times for transmission problems. Is this the reliability you speak of??

Not that I will necessarily buy a foreign vehicle next, most likely a chevy, gmc, or dodge ram (new ones are pretty nice), but the Toyota Truck plant down here in the south as you put it(Texas) actually pays very well and has very good benefits. I am pretty sure the Tundra is built here in Texas, plus that one toyota plant employs 2000 Texans, pretty good size manufacturing plant.

Compensation & Benefits:
Toyota offers a competitive salary that rewards performance and dedication. Together, your salary and benefits make up a total compensation package, which helps you feel the pride of Toyota. Here are some of the highlights:
· Medical and Dental Benefit
· Relocation packages
· Vacation
· Career Development and Planning, Tuition Assistance Education plans
· Vehicle purchase plan
· Group Home and Auto insurance plans
· Life and Accidental Death & Dismemberment Insurance, Dependent Life and Accidental Death & Dismemberment Insurance
· Long-Term Disability
· Retirement - Money Purchase Pension Plans, Employee Savings Retirement Plan (401k), Post-Retirement Medical

You are crazy to think the unions are good for any industry. The top executives of the unions take million dollar salaries while doing nothing for the common worker. The unions are killing ford and gm.

Let me ask you this, what kind of clothes do you wear, where do you fill your american made truck up with gas, I could go on forever. Most clothes are not made in the USA anymore, unless you are buying fuel from Exxon, Marathon, possibly Arco or a few others all the time, you are supporting foreign industry not american. I for one have been burned on two vehicles from Ford, so guess what I am buying one else where next time and yes it may be a foreign owned company, but I am guessing if it is a truck or SUV it was built in America!!

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying until I beat this into that thick skull of yours...
ADMIN NOTE: Cut of the insults!

Initial quality tracks with long term quality, they correlate!

You keep saying Ford is behind on long term quality, BUT THERE ARE NO LONG TERM QUALITY STUDIES ON 2008MY FORDS! Period.

LMAO, I have examples of both sitting in my yard right this second, and as far as basic build quality goes the Ford kills the Toyota.

A person is smart, but people are dumb...

 

you got an expedition thats been played around with and you are complaining about quality?as far as unions, maybe they are a bit overmanaged, but without them fighting fo our rights back in the days we would be in a socialist society wthout any!

 

Unions (going back to some union comments) are somewhat necessary. I think everyone agrees that manufacturing is important, and having people to do that work (especially with practical experience) is a good thing.

Unfortunately industries that revolve around manufacturing and selling goods have ups and downs. Unions seek to protect the people who take the risk of working those jobs.

I am not a fan of unions (when they try and over bargain) but they do serve a purpose.

Related to that...

Right-to-work states have issues of their own and the treatment of employees, I wager, are not nearly as good as in states where there are no right-to-work laws.

I understand there is a difference between unions and right-to-work laws, but right-to-work laws tend to neuter unions and render them completely ineffective (an example would be the teachers union here in AZ).

 

oh i forgot texas truck plant boss does not like the way you look,fired!!! thats what we have unions for!!

 

And there is that.

Texas must be a "right-to-work" state, no rights to the employees and the all the rights to the employers.

 

You're kidding, right? I've never been in a union...and I have NEVER been fired for the way I look! And if I were, then I would have a legal case for either: Discrimination or wrongful termination. Just let 'em try....

Unions are NOT something that makes us less of a socialistic society...more like the opposite. Capatalism is letting the market determine what the labor is worth...NOT a greedy union bullying their employer.

 

One problem is it seems like for changes models every so and so many years, how can they provide long term quality studies?

Example, civic and corolla have been around since what, mid to late 70's? (people can see the start of the quality was low then rise and stay up at the top)

Ford focus? Escort? (people see the quality is down and then boom ford changes the model)

Im a car guy and I have a import car. For the year of car I was looking, nothing domestic was comparible quality wise, so i bought an import.

Throughout my life I have owned all sorts of different makes and models of vehicles from a civic to a vauxhaull.

On Edit: Regarding the whole union things. Sounds like some people are confusing union issues with labour rights (like the whole getting fired cause they dont like the way ya look)

 

You can talk or write till your blue in the face but you wont convince many other than the Ford faithfull on this site that Ford is equal to Honda or Toyota in anything.

Initial quality does not correlate with long term quality. It's not even related. Anyone can build a vehicle that stays together for a couple months enabling the customer to fill out their satisfaction survey, even Ford.

The only thing Ford kills Toyota on is trips the the service writer for warranty repairs.
I know first about this first hand as I've owned three brand new Ford trucks and two Toyota trucks along with a Rav4, Camry and now our brand new 4Runner.

All of my Toyota's put together have had less trips to the service writer than my best Ford and that's how I judge quality.

It's like I said earlier, Toyota and Honda have an excellent reputation for buildng excellent vehicles and rightfully so.

 

Essentially every quality study ever published disagrees with you.

Improvement in initial quality tracks with long term quality pretty much like sun spot activity tracks with variations in global temps.

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

 

A few weeks ago I had a very nice long thread with Preppypyro about this very same topic. My final question was and still is: How many repairs / dollars must you perform / spend before you consider the vehicle to be a failure in quality?

I've done business with the same Ford dealer for the last 20 years. The dealer has recently been sold and is now a different place to buy a car. Customer service sucks, repair quality sucks, inventory is lacking. Trouble is, Ford lets them get away with it.

Do you really believe that ANYONE who buys a Japanese import is going to admit that it went to the shop for a repair? Do you think that said same person is going to devulge the enormity of his / her repair bill? I think not, it's blasphamy.

I've owned new and used Fords almost exclusively since the late 70's and have only had one that should be burned to the ground. That was a 1995 POS T-bird. My '88 F-150 has 200k. My '99 Taurus has has 100k, no major repairs on either. WHAT MORE CAN i ASK FOR?

How many Toyotas share a common platform / drive train and how many Honda's do likewise? Perhaps Ford could narrow the aledged quality gap if they produced more like models.

I'd buy a Hyundai before I'd buy either a Honda or a Toy. Excellent quality, less expensive and a much more comrehensive warranty.

Thumbs up to Ford, it's awesome employees and the union that protects them!!!!!!

Tim

 

In 2008MY vehicles, the gap is already gone.

 

well about 20 something years ago there was a big international harvester plant close to where i live,but The UNION wanted more and more...so guess what happened they left.in some cases unions are good,but i dont have one,i never really heard of someone getting fired of the way they looked,wouldnt u just not hire them

 

Wow...

I think that's the first time I've agreed with you, TJ!