I'd love for the American autoworker to continue to make big bucks, I truly do! More power to someone if they can be successful and make a healthy living. I never begrudge that of any man. I just don't think its sustainable with the UAW as it is. I think the most effective way for the US autoworker to make a good income, is for the unions to go away, have a merit, quality and production based system and give employees a direct stake in how their retirement is handled (ie. company matched 401K instead of pensions which have high overhead). Good employees who do a great job get nice fat bonuses and move up the ladder. The bottom 10% each year get canned. The top 10% get an extra bonus. This works extremely well in corporate America.

You'd be surprised at how hard people work to be productive and improve quality they put out to not only stay out of the bottom 10%, but to get at chance at an additional bonus. And... also if productivity goes up, give employees a chance to share in that by offering stock plans. The more profitable the company is the more valuable the stock becomes.

 

Money talks. So do cash incentives. Whether we're talking about workers or consumers. That almighty buck sure has its ways with human beings. Good post.

 

i must have misworded it,the employer does have the right to watch their employees,i jus didnt explain it very well...sry

 

They are very good idea's Ken but we both know that this would never happen. It would be great if it did though. I have lost many a job for doing to good a job. I seen this happen to so many trade people. I sometimes feel that these companys really do want monkeys working for them. Latest example was a chippy(carpenter) friend of mine. Done a lovely job on everything he did. Maybe the best site chippy i have ever come across. People aways very impressed with his work and paid the top $$ the property developer wanted due to the quality of the work. Well he was told to make his work a lower quality so they could get in and out quicker on the jobs. He told them where to go and left and now they have a monkey who does a ok job but the property developer gets complaints left right and center because they are chargeing big bucks for a sub par job.

 

o an ken if i had a small business i wouldnt want a union

 

Ah, I get it TJ...may just be the second thing we've ever agreed on!

 

First of all, I never compared my Taurus to the Honda. Two completely different animals.

Secondly, my Taurus has been through one teenager learning to drive and is getting ready to go through another teenager.

Thirdly, the last time we danced, I compared my '85 Tempo which was bulletproof and teenager driven to my '90 Civic and you shot me down.

I don't ever intend to drive a vehicle over 200k, except for my current '88 F-150 which has 194k now. Too expensive to replace.

My Taurus is a great car and the few bucks that I've spent on it doesn't bother me one bit. Since I've effected all the repairs on the Honda, it's been very reliable. Do I trust it? Not on your life.

Tim

 

My bad then Tim, When we you mentioned the problems that your taurus had, and then we were talking about the problems your honda had, I guess i took it the wrong way that you were comparing them.

I totally get what you say, you trust your honda car, just like i would trust alot of domestic econobox's, I wouldnt

 

UAW has run the big three into the ground...... Line workers should be paid piece work.....I bet they become far more productive...

 

If I could get a Honda or a Toy dealer to get down to good old fashioned horse trading like the Ford dealers do, I would actually consider getting a one of those two makes. I refuse to pay 15k for a bare honda w/o even as much as AC when I can get a bare Focus with some goodies for around 12.5K with some negotiating. $2500.00 more for fewer options is a big deal to me. I could run the Focus for say, 200k miles and it may have a few repairs, but, I still come out ahead.

I bought my Taurus Wagon new in '99 for 17.5K. It listed for 24.5K. It's a top of the line SE model with the 24 valve 3.0L motor. I couldn't have touched a Camry or an Accord for that money. I have maybe $300.00 in repair parts over the years for the items that I mentioned before.

The Taurus will have to literally fail and cost me thousands in repairs to make the import price worth the expense. (Does that make sense)? I don't think I worded it right.

I do appreciate and highly value your thoughts, I learn something new everyday on here.

Tim

 

just talked to my freind his wifes 05 lexus suv has a bad head gasket,been back for other things (moonroof hasnt worked for 30k miles(has 70k)costs 3000 to fix) not very happy! last toyota in his yard! it does happen to them.......

 

I actually bought my '98 Old from a TOYOTA dealer. Why? Because their sales personnel are FRIENDLY. Can't say that for ANY of the Ford dealers in the area. It seems to me that the Ford/GM/Dodge dealers around here are so clouding with trying to make a sale that they've forgotten I'm a customer and I KNOW what I want. Not what they think I want. I had this dance with a Hyundai dealer once, he thought I wanted something I didn't. I took my business elsewhere. The particular dealer I bought from we've bought FOUR cars from now, two prius (01 and an 05), an '08 Scion, and my Intrigue. They treated me fairly, offered me $500 MORE for my trade than ANYONE else and made sure I was happy with what I bought, if I wasn't they were going to let me swap it out with another car in the same price band.

 

Saying that without unions our country would have been socialist? Unions espouse socialism to the highest degree. Forced equalization is exactly what unions are. As a union member you are required to do as everyone does. You are shunned if you work harder. You are not allowed to hold the importance of what is best for the company, but what is best for the union. As I see it, unions have never given anyone a job other than a secretary or the various agents for the union that confiscate the members money. In the early years of American industry unions had a place and they were necessary. Today we have laws that protect workers as well as the protectionist unions do without the negative impact that unions put on workers. If anyone would like to search for a viable reason as to why our products that we produce are inferior, if they are inferior, you have to look no further than the attitude and the ability of the work force in America. With each generation we are becoming more and more incompetent. The "greatest generation", or those who won WWII are those that had a relentless work ethic. Since these hard working men and women have left the workplace our workforce has steadily declined in skill level and committment to quality. Not everyone obviously, but collectively our workers are more complacent and lazy with every generation since. The lack of pride in our society is painful and I believe that until we can return to what made our products the best in the world we are destined to lose our jobs to those companies that are able to build the best products, REGARDLESS of what country they are located in. If you purchase a product that is superior in quality to its competitors you are simply making an intelligent purchase with your money. If you purchase an inferior product just to "protect" the company you are just prolonging the inevitable end for that company. It is no secret that from a money standpoint that purchasing a Honda or Toyota car is a smart decision based on reliability and resale value. I don't like it either, but it is the undeniable truth that they will both be worth more money than any domestic automobile in resale value. This would not be true if all things were equal. Both Honda and Toyota have earned their place in the market with quality. Is anyone else offended by the Ford commercial that says that Ford is on par with Toyota in quality? I am. How did this happen? Was it the design that allowed the Big 3 to fall behind the foreign automakers or was it the workers? Or does the blame get equally shared? Either way America can return to being the biggest and best automobile makers in the world if we simply return to building the best.

 

Well said sir. However, quality on the assembly line may be one issue but another issue to consider is the level of quality in the parts that are used to build the car. For example, does Honda or Toy use a higher quality alternator? If so, who do they buy it from? Does Ford buy from the same source?

I'm not convinced that Ford's bodies or engines are failing at a rate any faster than the Japanese competition, I think the premature failures may be associated with electronics, electric components such as alternators, starters and perhaps some hydraulic components such as steering racks or clutches. Maybe I'm way off base here, but that is my personal experience with Ford vehicles prior to my '99 Taurus.

Tim

 

Tim we may not wanna know the answer for that, for all we know they all come from china lol.