It all depends on how much tuning you want to do. The Smaller carbs with vac sec are more forgiving.

Infact a 450cfm is large enough for a stock 390 street use.

 

I had a 74F100 with a 360 auto. I used a large port C5AE intake with a Holley 650 double pumper. It was set up by a buddy mechanic and it never ever bogged or hesitated. I was only 16 at the time and I put this intake on all by myself, I was crazy doing it all by hand. I had longtube headers and 2 1/4 dual exhaust. I used the 1 inch Ford water crossover spacer from the Stinkin Lincoln that I pirated the intake from. I used a this intake on my small port D2TE heads. My Cheby buddies told me that it would run better that way?????? I could run dead even with the 85 carbed Mustang GT's in the day. I would do it again today with my 418 but I already have a 670 vac sec since all the people on here talk about how good vac secondaries help gas mileage with 4 dollar gallon gas. When running on the street from a roll against another car, the double pumper has the immediate advantage, since I know for a fact the secondaries are open when I'm on it. Off the subject, a traction lok rearend is definately needed with this upgrade, otherwise you'll have one legged burnouts. My double pumper hated cold weather and ran like crap with that manual choke. I am getting a Proform 750 double pumper with electric choke if my 670 seems too unresponsive. Good luck.
Chris

 

Gee back in the olden days we learn to retune the carbs and read the plugs until 99% of issues were over come. And 45 yrs later there's still carb tuning books, carb rejeting kits and so on.No one seems to want to take the time and learn this stuff any more. But if your not a fix it man and have the bucks to just throw more into it until the real problem is cover up and your just a part changer type of guy that's ok too. This is all old school stuff guys. You want to drive it like a race car or a truck it's all up to you..It can still run good. my 2cents
orich

 

Well, you story has major holes in it. First off, no Lincoln EVER had an FE in it. The Mel series of engines, then the 460 from the 385 family. Second off, on a 360 large port heads were the total wrong way to go as was the 650 DP. I would suspect you wouldn't recognize a off idle bog if it walk up an slapped you. The long tube headers, if the primaries were small diameter, which I would doubt with the other choices you made, was the only thing done right.
And the claim of running dead even with a 390GT Mustang with an overcarbed, wrong headed 360 engine in an F100 are ludicrous at best. The flatness you claim the from the 670 is probably the absences of the off idle bog. Good luck with the 750 DP as once again you choice is wrong and Holley even says so.

 

I pulled this intake out of a Lincoln with suicide doors at a junkyard back in 85, whether it was or wasn't equipped with a 385 series engine or BB Cheby, I don't give a rats azz. It was an FE intake since it fit my 360. I don't know if you have ever done this stupid swap of a wrong intake, since I was still in high school at the time, but it worked fine without any bog whatsoever, since it was tuned properly. I was also advised, on the carb selection, by my uncle whom worked on FE's for 20+ years at Earnhardt Ford in AZ as a mechanic. I originally wanted to put a 750 on it, but he told me the 650 would work out just fine. He also owned a Ford Talladega with the 428CJ. He also tried to talk me into a 351 Windsor for it due to the cost of parts and labor. If you're smart enough to figure out and read my post, the longtubes will lean out the mixture. Yeah, I made a bad decision to use the large port intake since I knew nothing about the intake. At the time, I could not afford the Edelbrock Performer 390. I also searched for a Ford aluminum FE intake which I never found at any junkyards in the mid 80's. I had little income, knowledge, and needed to replace the two barrel fast. What the hay, a little reversion never hurts anyone anyways.

Also, Jr., I never stated that my truck would keep up with a 390GT Mustang, if you can read my post above, that really would be ludicrous to think that I could even keep up with that style of FE powered Mustang.

Overall I think if you really even had any comprehension of what combination of parts I have, you could even make an educated guess at what type of carb I really need. Or even what anyone else needs for that matter. You also forgot that I wasn't a seasoned racer at the age of 16 with my first FE. I've ridden a few times since then.

I think with the combination that the original poster stated is a correct and verifiable and succesful selection for their truck. The 650 won't bog if the engine is in good shape and the carb is tuned right.

Bear, I think you come here as a seasoned bench racer without asking the right questions first.

 

The Lincolns with suicide doors all had MEL engines, 430 and 462. I know because my dad owned several. Why the hell would anyone go to less cubes in a very heavy car? Your uncle wasn't much of a mechanic, well maybe a fine factory stock mech but as a race or hot rod mech, not so good if he recommended a DP carb for a street truck. Oh yeah, I myself owned a pair of Ford Cobras (the Fairlane body and the base car for the Talladega) both with 428CJs. Raced both at one time or another and turned one into a full time race car, but even before that I still knew that a 650DP on a 360 was stupid. A proper tune can not cure a case of major over carburation, especially a DP case of over carburation. It would be like wondering why your engine has no bottom end power with a tunnel ram on it. I didn't do stupid things like your intake choices because I listened to the older heads and did as they recommended, rather that charge in and screw up with what little money I had as a teen. I did not come here as a seasoned bench racer, I came here as a seasoned racer, in several venues with several different engine types and as a professional mechanic, factory certifed no less, plus having worked as a paid race mechanic and owned, worked on and driven my own equipment to local, divisional and even national championships and even a speed record or two. So bench racer no, the real deal racer and mechanic. Why should I ask questions when there is know way you could ever answer them?

 

Hate to bust your chops but you don't know squat about what other people like myself are running nor could you even talk about someone who works as a mechanic for over 20yrs. for Ford. I'll still call you out as a bench racer since you have such an experienced point of view. I really don't give a crap about your illustrious racing career since you think that a double pump carb is not for the streets. One chooses this carb for preference and for better throttle response. Maybe you need to be schooled and stop telling people how to wipe their own ***. Personally, I've never heard of you in the racing world as long as I've been reading this forum. As a moderator, I would have thought you would have been more mature with your answers. Whatever your choice, I hope you never used vacuum secondaries on your Cobra's or race vehicles since you may have not made a wise choice in your carb selections. You'd think I was getting advice from Jack Roush, the way you talk around here.

 

Yeah, but I know what works and what doesn't. I see your lack of knowledge and the facts comes screaming out again. All CJ, both 428 and 429 came with vacuum secondaries and worked great, But you don't know that. Besides even with engine hop ups a bit of carb tuning and they still worked fine. But on the race only 428CJ I did run a 406 3X2 set up which worked better than any single or dual 4 barrel set up did. I never even met Jack Roush, but I did work part time at a chassis dyno shop while in the military and learned more from a practical racer who ran the same car and engine combo in 3 classes in the old AHRA. Old Ted ran a 2 barrel, a 4 barrel and a 3X2 set up on the same Pontiac station wagon with a punched out 389 and held the speed and ET records in all 3 classes. So practical racer yes, what won't work anywhere but on the race track, that's Jack Roush, no and don't want to either. I'm pretty sure you will never be a good hot rodder, because you think you already know it all, when obviously you don't even know the basics. But far be it for me to give you same easy knowledge that actually works. You just go ahead and be mediocre the rest of your life.

 

Would it have run better with a smaller carb? I don't know, never needed to try a different carb because the 750 double pumper that was on it worked outstanding. AFAIK, it had the same carb on it from 2 PO's who had it before me and the 2 after me, and no one ever complained. But like I said in my previous post, I do not know what the internal package was. Years later I discovered the truck had been owned by a local gearhead who had built the engine. What all he did will probably never be known. Can I say that a 750 double pumper will work as good on anyone elses 352? I don't know, But I'm pretty sure a warm 390 can handle it just fine.

 

Do you have any idea how high you have to rev a 352 to need a 750 carb? I doubt it very much. That would be 7300 rpm and there is no way a street motor lasted thru 5 owners reving that high. Even a 390 needs to turn 6650 rpm for a 750 to be necessary and I very much doubt yours ever reved that high. Rarely are 390 reved that high. Just because 5 different guys didn't know any better doesn't make it so. It is so pathetic that just because you did it wrong, or someone else did it wrong and you weren't knowledgeable enough to tell the difference. Very sad is all I can say.

 

I think Bear has a solid reputation around here as a great source for troubleshooting AND performance information.

Blacky76, with a total of 8 posts on this site, and half of them in this thread alone, I'll take Bear's advice over any of your stories anytime

 

Wow, so sorry to have pissed you all off sooooo bad.

 

So maybe we should change this thread's title to "over crabbed"

Bear knows his stuff, that doesn't make him perfect, but he still knows his stuff. One thing he didn't mention this time (or maybe I overlooked it this time) is that what has been described contradicts what the manufacturers say about their own products.

BTW, another vote for Bear.

 

OOOOOK, well I think I have gotten some great answers, and I appreciate all the input.
Bear thanks for sharing your vast experience. A complete rebuild is now in the works and
what I'm looking to build is a DD with bolas!