I'm rite there with you buddy.

 

You need to re-read the posts then (and it was in ONE other thread that DIRECTLY spun into this one, not "several" threads)........NEVER said they "SHOULD" have, only said they "COULD" have, but it would not have made fiscal sense considering most of the tooling for the MOD motors had already been around for 7+ years.


I also went on to say that I've owned a mildly breathed on 460/C6, EFI 460/5speed and my current V10 and that the 460's were nowhere close to the V10 in towing up a grade.


And yes, if I were building a high performance motor the 460 is a far better platform...........but I wouldn't neccessarily want that in a daily driver.

If you want reliable, clean, relatively powerful, fairly trouble free service; the V10 is one of the all time greats.


From the "other" thread...........in case you missed it (post #22):

 

You are POed at me for the "waxing nostalgic" shot

I am POed for the "Babbling" shot

Now you are I are both just babbling, drooling, V10 induced BSEG,--- idiots...ah, er, nut cases

 

Hey guys, I currently own a 75 ford f-250 with a 460, completely stock except for a 4x4 cam sugessted buy comp cams and a Holley 750 vac secondary. I has 3.73 gears in the rear and is a 2wd regular cab. I have recently purchased a 2000 superduty f-350 with a v-10, runs very well, definitly gets beter milage when empty, vs the old 460. But when towing my 6500 lb holiday trailer with 2 dirtbikes in the box, its only averaging about 11mpg. This is no big deal cause the 460 at best was doing 9 mpg. But I must say that when came to the big hills in the mountains, the old 460 outpulled this v10 hands down. Thus I am supprised to hear all this testimony about the v10 pulling better! As a result I find myself looking for after market cam shafts, but to no avail. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Or maybe someone has some suggestions as to why this truck seems to be lacking in the hills.

 

I have never owned a 460 but have had diesels. I just returned from a trip and weighed my rig and the GCVW was 15,020lbs and I am wondering the same thing at times. Mine is a 99 with 4.30 gears, CAI, SPD Y, FM70 and 1715 tuner.I hit some hills that had me in 2nd gear at 40mph foot to the floor, but she got it done. I did notice that if you drive it like you stole it, 4000+ rpm's it will get the job done. I have had a 454 Chevrolet that got the job done also, but with a little less screaming. I guess they are what they are.

 

That's why i have to laugh a bit. I just picked my truck up from having a new V10 installed in it last Tuesday, it's my daily driver for work/bidding jobs, towing all sorts of trailers and weights. These guy all tall me it's gotta spin redline when towing, that what the V10 likes. I've drag raced for years so i know what spinning high rpms do to the life of valvetrain components over time, and guess what broke in my old V10 that hashed the engine...a valve spring, that let go, dropped the #3 intake valve into the cylinder when playing ping pong with the piston and head after it snapped the valve off....rpm kills engines PERIOD. Why do diesels last so long...sure the HD parts help, BUT look at the rpm range they operate in...very very low so it's not taxing anything.

Regardless, we had a race a couple hours south this holiday weekend, had the 28' enclosed loaded to the gills as we always do on long race weekends, and these are plenty of hills on the way to this track, typical "drag and fly" ya drag it up the back side the hill, pedal on the floor engine screaming trying to maintain 45mph if your lucky, crest the hill, keep it pinned to build up momentun and fly down the back side so you can make it half way up the next hill before your going 45mph again.

It is what it is sums it up perfectly....powerhouse, great for towing john boats or jet ski's, yep, anything heavy it's not the best option, but what does ford offer that's any good for towing in the past 6 years....nothing. They need a serious tq/hp curve adjustiment for the V10 and need to get rid of the 6.0/6.4 and get anything else in it's place....sucks to have the toughest truck on the market and crap for engine options

 

Well its good to hear that I am not the only one noticing the lack of power on these v-10's. Was begining to think I was the only one with everyone saying how great they are and better than the old 460. I haven't had any experience with the efi 460's, but plently with the old carbed ones, and can tell you this, first thing ya do is take that distributor and give it a mean crank to the left, just so she's not pinging under load. Timing chain was always a necesity, and sellect a good cam, my beast would out tow any v-10 up hill, and if it'll do it up hill then damb sure it'll do it on the flat. And I agree about the high revving, last time I checked torque wasn't produced up high, and that is what you need to pull a large load. Old 460 never reved over 3200 rpm.

 

I've had both.
No way I am going back to an old 460. More low rpm grunt but it runs out of wind on long steep pulls.
Sure it never screamed at high rpm. That was because it just wasn't effective at high rpm.
And again, back then I thought it was a good puller. But I pulled a lot slower also.
Maybe I don't have enough patience.
I love low rpm grunt. I would be in a diesel if Ford offered anything I could trust again after my 6.0 debacle.

 

I have to admit I like how quiet the V-10 is in say a campground in the morning and it will get the job done. I just wish you did not have to beat the snot out of it to make some of the hills. What other gas alternative is out there? 5.7 hemi, 6.0 chev? I doubt they do any better?
P.S. I love the "drag and fly" analogy.

 

[quote=saggys;7685130]I have to admit I like how quiet the V-10 is in say a campground in the morning and it will get the job done. I just wish you did not have to beat the snot out of it to make some of the hills.quote]

Rev it up and don't worry about it, theres a rev limiter on there for a reason. The V10 delivers power differently than diesels and the old low rpm big block V8s of the past.

 

[quote=dkf;7685349]I dont know how much experience you have with pushing engines to the limit time and again, but in racing weather it be going in circles or in a straight line, we push things to the max, right upto redline, right upto the rev limiter but here's the difference, we that race KNOW our engines have short life spans, our engines are relatively easy to pull, relatively cheap to freshen up since we know pushing them to that extreme is HARD ON THEM. So having to push your daily driver that is "built" to work/tow to redline, max rpm just to make it work suposedly "right" is one of the worst engine combination design flaws Ford has ever put into a truck engine.

Last i knew of looking back at all the towing and hauling i've done i need the grunt down LOW since i'm not using a transbrake and a loose convertor so i can leave a stop light and have the convertor flash into the 3000rpm+ range just to be in the powerband so i can get my heavy load moving, i want my grunt off idle and UPTO 3500rpm so i'm not beating the dog snot out of valve seats, not stressing valve springs that are cycling thousands of times a minute, not stressing valves (like the one that broke in my engine and now finding out from the mechanic he replaces ALOT of these modular motors due to broken valves) because they're getting cycled thousands of times per minute slamming into the valve seat because this engine is deisgned to make it's peak numbers way up in the rpm band....

Is it better for fuel milage-obviously so, is the engine smooth-when it's running right i've heard nothing as smooth or quite, but having to spin an engine near redline to make hills at 10-20mph less than the speed limit really sucks because it's bad for the people following you since they dont have a clue as to WTF is going on, why are you going 75mph one time and 45mph the next time...PITA for us towing, dangerous for those following us while towing. IMO truck engines should be long stroked and big bored so the power is kept low n the rpm band....the EXACT OPPOSITE of the V10 which is small bore and short stroked..yes, that equation is perfect for spinning high revs, but last i checked, guys using their trucks for work are'nt wanting to spin it to the moon to make it work.

It is what it is, but if the engine pulled even 1/4 as good as soo many of the guys on here claimed it does, the resale for the engine option would'nt be as poor as it is, the engine would be in demand...but sadly, this engine is like the plauge, nobody wants it for a trade in since they sit and they give you junk price on it if they take it at all....these engines hurt resale, not help it, whereas the hemi's and 6.0 gas motors dont affect a thing for resale prices...chew on that. Dont believe me, start internet shopping trucks and see how bottom barreled V10 trucks are...it is'nt a fluke either.

 

Remember this post IHI, yep thats you.

The modulars have been known to last a long time and they will often outlast the 460 and that pulling a lot of rpm.

Seriously IHI why don't you just take a hike. You never have anything worthwile to contribute. Just whining, smart assed remarks a 15 YO would make and bi-polar opinion.

 

[quote=IHI;7685569]This is nonsense. The 6.8 is the only offering. If you want to drive an older truck that gets worse milage go ahead. Time marches on.
That said, I cannot find a low mile 6.8 four door colse to me in western Canada. And I've been looking.
If you know of a low mile screaming deal, post up!
I've raced bikes for decades and there is no use comparing a race motor to the 6.8. The 6.8 is going to be a hell of a lot happier spinning high rpm than any 460. I had my first 460 in the early 80's. I don't long for another.

 

[quote=saskdiesel;7686833]You pretty much just backed up what i and everybody else that knows engines knew a loong time ago. YES you are correct, the V10 does like to be spun, it's a small bore, short stroke engine, where as the 460 is a big bore long stroke engine.

small bore= small engine displacement so less cubic inch
small stroke= even less displacement since piston does'nt have near the travel, but couple that with small bore and the ONLY way you can make any sort of power with that set up is with rpm since it needs the fast paced air movement coming into the cylinder in order to make any power with it....that's why some guys like to build 377cid chevy engines for roundy round racing, they need to spin ALOT of rpm to make the signal right through the restricted carburators they're forced to run for some class runs, so they spin them to death and it tricks the carb into thinking it's larger than what it really is, and these cars dont want and dont need power down low.

big bore= more cubic inch
big stroke= more piston travel per stroke so piston speed does'nt need to be nearly as fast since your compensating by having a large cylinder volume you have to fill with air/fuel...hence the 460 making power down low.

Fact- 2 completely different engine designs
Fact- spinning ALOT of rpms is HARD ON PARTS, seriously guys that have no experience and are arguing in favor of the V10, break it down for me so i can see how spinning ANY engine is great for long term service.
Fact- Some of us that buy these big trucks are'nt buying them in place of a station wagon, it's all these soccer dad's that have pushed the truck market to worry more about "ride quality" vs functionality, and the REAL reason guys that need trucks buy them. The manufacturers knows soccer dad's trying to look the part of a real guy far exceed the number of us that actually use these trucks as tools in our arsenal for making a living, so WE in the feild are stuck with what the popular consensus wants in a truck, not what is really needed in a truck, and what makes a truck a truck.

Fact- when towing heavy loads leaving a stop light, when towing heavy loads up hills you want the peak power down low since that's where alot of the time is spent when actually WORKING the truck.


I did that for 1 day toteing salt/sand and even said it worked great for that day and it did get the job done, but would i want to try doing that kinda load or weight over any distance...NO. It got the job done, that is it for 1 day, and since that day i bought a dump truck since it's a heck of a lot easier and FASTER using the dump truck to haul that load vs expecting my anemic truck to do that even if it's just a once a year event.

I like my TRUCK, i hate the V10, i hated the first one, and this SECOND V10 i just had installed at 120K on the truck is just as weak as the first one was......try to say it was a service thing, all my trucks have 3K service intervals at the same shop, even the one diesel i have uses the same 3K interval, because for me oil and preventative maintenance is ALOT cheaper throughout the year vs beating on stuff and having a large repair bill later.

Last FACT to touch the old subject- TRUCK ENGINES should not have to be spun as high as ferrari's and other exotic small bore/short stroke engines, TRUCKS need to be just like diesels, make the power down low, EVERYTHING LAST LONGER. But again, i forgot, i'm dumb since i dont agree with the herd, i dont know jack about engines, and i did'nt buy my truck to drive to the office so my opinions are all null and void. The guys that actually use these trucks with the V10 and are honest all share the same feelings as i do. it gets the job done, but has tons of room to be made better.

Fact- if V10's are so hard to come by in canada, expand your search to the states, they're cheap and plentiful because dealers cant get rid of them, like any truck, finding exactly what you want for options may be tough, but that'll be any truck if buying used, you may have to compromise here or there, but all ya need to do is get on the net, they're very cheap to buy a great truck and anemic engine!!!!

 

[quote=IHI;7687439]Thats just wrong. Long strokers have higher piston speeds at the same rpm.
And high rpm isn't nessesarily bad for a motor.
I ran my ZX-11 motor at 4500 rpm highway speeds. And I sold that 1100cc mill with over 230 000kms and it was still very strong.
My Honda Fit turns 3200rpm at 110kmh. I expect it to last 350 000-400 000 kms without trouble.
High rpm does not kill motors that are designed for it. Period.
I do agree that a truck motor should have low end grunt. But the 6.8 is right up there under 3000 rpm. It doesn't make big torque at 1200rpm like my old 300 six or 460. But it does not run out of breath on a downshift like those two motors did.