Hey guys I'm new here. Since I'm thinking of getting rid of my Dmax and thinking about going to a gasser I drove 2 new rigs this week. One was a Ford F250 with the V10, 5 spd auto and 4.10 gears. The other a new style Chev 2500 HD with the 6.0, 6 spd auto and 3.73 gears. Both were crew cabs. Chev had a real box, Ford was a shorty.

The V10 seemed to pull smooth and easy and needed very little throttle to pull small to medium hills. It was disapointing in acceleration though. Never gave you that push in the seat feeling. Passing from 60 mph it was no better than the wifes Sub with the 5.3.

The 6.0 Chev was the exact oppisite. Went great when floored but had to down shift on any kind of hill to hold speed. When I first headed down the road I was beginning to wonder if it would ever shift into OD. Finally did and stayed there till the first small hill got in its way. Not impressive at all unless you had your foot in it.

Maybe I want another DirtyDamnDiesel after all.

 

Put a huge load behind it

 

Wait till the motor has some miles under its belt (the V10's really open up after 10k+miles)

Oh, and get the 4.30's. Your wallet won't notice the difference, the seat of your pants will. If you catch my drift

 

OK guys I get your drift. It's just that I'm used to pulling with low end power not rpm. I'm trying to convince myself that I'll be happy with gasser.

I never tow heavy. The 5er with the small trailer behind can't go much over 12k. Our main destination does have one pass at over 7000' though.

I know waht you mean about gettin er broke in though. The first time I hooked the Dmax on a trailer (maybe 3500 lb) I wanted my 454 back. 5000 miles later and then a chip and I was happy.

No worrys on the gears. I've read enough here to know to get the 4.30. Now if only it wasn't in a F..Fo.... Ford. There I said it. I'm thinking about another Ford. My kid may never speak to me again if I do it, but live will go on.

 

hmm? Well, either way, it seems the 8.1 holds it own. I know they share the same exhaust ports. I was definelty under the impression that it was, for the most part, a completely new engine though. Have to look at that further at a different time.
Would love to see that article. Do you remember which issue it was by chance? Any chance of getting a scanned article from you?

 

The article, if I remember correctly, was from a 2002 issue of Truck Trend (using 2001 models) and was one of many reasons I went with the V10 when I bought my F250. It was on TT's website in the archived articles but I get TT in the mail now so I don't read the website anymore.

The results were as follows: The Ford V10 beat the GM V8 in unloaded acceleration by a small margin. BTW-all trucks were 4x4s with autos and same cab/bed configurations.

The GM beat the Ford towing in the 8000lb range by an equally small margin.

The Dodge 8.0L V10 came in last everytime by a large margin.

It was a good article-they gave figures for braking, mileage and just about every other stat you can think of. That issue generated quite a bit of banter on the GM and Ford truck boards and really got the V10 some deserved attention. I owned a Chevrolet at the time and it really bugged the 8.1L fans that the 6.8L "turd" beat their precious big block unloaded and hung with it towing. To add insult to injury, the tested Ford had a fairly heavier curb weight than the tested GM pickup!

A few other magazines got similar results with these engines at about the same time so even the naysayers couldn't claim TT's results were a fluke!

 

Thank you for the information. I went to TT's website in hopes to find the article you mentioned, which I havent yet, and read an article on the new HD GM trucks. I thought you mind find this interesting.

"Gone is the old-school Big Block Vortec 8100 altogether, while the new Gen-IV OHV 6.0-liter V-8 is the gas engine of choice. Now with variable valve timing, the 6.0 liter produces 353 horsepower and 373 pound-feet of torque, both at 4400 rpm."

 

Sounds like they are STILL behind the times. 425ft/lbs of torque around 3200RPM from the old 6.8L 2-valver, and now with the three-valver, over 460ft/lbs of torque. And all of that with 80% of it down below 1500RPMs.

They still have a lot of catch-up to do it seems

 

My 88 F250 4X4 460 was the first year that EFI was available in the 460 and that truck was not very impressive. My 81 F250 4x4 with a 400 was a faster truck and much easier on fuel.
I keep all my trucks stock and the 88 460 made between 6-7 MPG pulling an 8000 pound mid profile Fiver. Combined weight was around 14000 and towing performance was not very good. Only slightly better than the 81 400 which made 10 MPG towing.
My stock 05 3Valve V10 pulling a 12000 lb high profile Fiver combined weight 20800 is getting between 7-8 MPG and would blow the doors off my old 460 set up even though I am now 7000 pounds heavier and 2ft higher.
My experience with my stock 460 and my stock V10? My V10 is a brute. My 460 was a wimp. I know there are 460s out there that have decent power. Mine was a dog.

 

You're welcome. Even though I'm not a huge GM truck fan these days I was still sad to see the 8.1L not be offered any longer. The 2001/2002 2500HDs with Allison tranny/8.1L were good looking and powerful. The new GM gassers seem to me at first glance to be bland looking and gutless for heavy towing. Dodge isn't even in the ballpark if you want a HD gasser pickup for heavy towing.

BTW-the 2V V10s for 2000 to 2004 are rated to produce 400lb-ft at 1900rpm. That's 94% of peak torque available at/under 2000rpm...not too shabby for any engine, especially one that's 415 displacement. No other currently produced gas engine is in that range-most of the high HP 1/2 ton gas engines produce well under 90% of peak at/under 2000rpm. Ford is the last one that still makes decent torque at relatively low rpm. Hopefully they'll continue.

 

Chevy and dodge are no longer in for heavy duty gas haulers. I was at auto zone yesterday and the guy there said that the v-10 was 413 cubic inchs. He said he was right because his computer on there website said so. At autozone, it also says the 460 is 7.7L. The funny thing is that my buddy believes him! hahaha

 

Yes, I still have it.........will be home from work sometime tomorrow.

Mountain's recollection is the same as mine.....except I seem to remember the loaded hill climb being a pretty clear win (+3 seconds) for the 8.1.

The Ford won most of the empty sprints and got 1-2 MPG better.

I shopped the 8.1 Allsison vs the truck I ended up with. (V10, 4100R)
I really liked the Allison trans....the truck I drove was at a rodeo and was a strippy with vinyl floors.....the Allison made some very strange mechanical noises. Years later when driving my buddy's Allison with carpeted cab...there were no noises.

There was no dealing on the then brand new 8.1/Allison....so with my D plan there was HUGE price difference in favor of my Ford. Except for 1 fragged trans. (thank goodness I had the extended warranty) I've been very pleased with my decision(s).


Again, the 8.1 (496)is basically a stroked 454....normally you can't go too big on a stock block 454 bore, that's why you see around 46x as the biggest displacements with the stock stroke.

However, the 502 block (which I have the Bow-Tie version in my boat) is a big bore, stock stroke motor due to the siamesed bores.(no water jacket between cylinders)

I assure you they are all the same motor family with different numerical designations after the "Mark" nomenclature.....ie: MarkIV...MarkV, MarkVI etc..


All the LSx motors use a deep skirt block with all ports being symetrical...

 

Uh... www.whygas.com You see, they moved up to the Medium Duty. Probably due to emission requirements or lack thereof.

 

Sitting here with the September/October, 2001 isssue of TRUCK TREND.

The Dodge and GM were both Crew Cabs and the Ford was a Super Cab.

The GM weighed in at 7110, the Dodge at 6890 and the Ford at 6710

Ratios were 4.10 on the Dodge/GM and 4.30's on the Ford.

O-55 uphill with 7400 pound trailer:

GM........................28.5sec.

Ford......................31.4

Dodge....................34.5


0-55 downhill with 7400 pound trailer:

GM........................19.2

Ford..........................19.9

Dodge........................22.7



0-60 empty:

Ford..........................9.69

Dodge........................9.78

GM............................9.96


0-80 empty:

GM...........................17.70

Ford.............................18.33

Dodge...........................18.71


1/4 mile:

Ford..................................17.36@78

GM...................................17.43@79

Dodge...........................17.33@77


Observed MPG

Ford.....................9.7

GM.......................9.1

Dodge...................9.2



On the Dyno, the Ford sucked with horrible rear wheel numbers compared to the other two.

No clear winner was picked but the Ford was cheapest by $5,600 (some of that was that it was not a Crew cab) under the GM and $2,700 less than teh Dodge.


My memory was off a tad...........thought the MPG was a bigger spread favoring the Ford. And I don't remember the Dodge squeeking in that 1/4 mile win.


I honestly sometimes want to throw out the hundreds (thousands??) of magazines I have; but I swear my wife wants me to keep them for times exactly like this!!!

 

Just remembering pulling the skid steer, which I estimate weighs 9000 to 9500 pounds on the trailer, up I-40 east of here. With my one ton, 460, 5 speed manual and 3.55 gears it would pull the trip up the mountain at 65 MPH pretty much floored at about 2500 RPM IIRC. If you got pulled down it was hard to get back up to speed. With the Excursion, 6.8L, 3.73 gears, the same trip was no problem. Most of the trip was in 3rd gear, at the top where it gets steep kicked it down to second, 3900 RPM or so, and no problem, still had power left. It has taken me a while but now that I've gotten used to winding it out I think I like the V-10 better. And the Excursion weighs about 2000 pounds more than the truck did. Just my $0.02.

Jim