V10 vs. 460
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,166
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From: Chino, California
Originally Posted by stngh8r
V10 cams mmmm?
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2007
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Having driven many built fe's and 429-460's I wasn't excited about mod motors, especially in trucks, until the first time I took one apart, from a machinery standpoint the mods are beautiful inside.
I was the chassis mechanic at a Ford rv dealer when Ford switched from 460 to V10.
I was lucky enough to drive nearly identical 30' class a's, one 1997 460 and one 1999 V10, so much smoother and more powerfull was the V10, I was falling in love.
Then I start asking owners about their mileage, built 460's averaging 6, V10's stock getting 8. (stock 460's got 4-5, my dads 460 in a '53 f600 gets 5.)
Smoother, more powerfull, better fuel mileage, what's the downside to the V10 over a 460? Oh yeah now instead of beefing my truck up I just drive them and save my wrenches for my racecar.
Still love 460's but like V10's even more.
I was the chassis mechanic at a Ford rv dealer when Ford switched from 460 to V10.
I was lucky enough to drive nearly identical 30' class a's, one 1997 460 and one 1999 V10, so much smoother and more powerfull was the V10, I was falling in love.
Then I start asking owners about their mileage, built 460's averaging 6, V10's stock getting 8. (stock 460's got 4-5, my dads 460 in a '53 f600 gets 5.)
Smoother, more powerfull, better fuel mileage, what's the downside to the V10 over a 460? Oh yeah now instead of beefing my truck up I just drive them and save my wrenches for my racecar.
Still love 460's but like V10's even more.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2004
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Good post Gojoe and the 460's mediocre towing performance and awesome thirst for fuel was what got so many of us into diesels. The incredible towing performance and decent mileage of the V10 has got a few of us back to gas.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
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just to add, "beefing" a 460 can be a bear in emissions compliant trucks. not much you can do that is legal in a state that has inpections. Even if you did, say you upgraded an intake (who sells an aftermarket 460 efi intake? I've never seen one.) injectors, fuel pump and everything else, to you disappointment, most if not all 460's utilize the EEC Speed density setup which in turn makes your performance parts junk, as it will perform to the computer's programmed limitations and not let the installed performance parts "perform".
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: SLC, UT
Originally Posted by Destroya
just to add, "beefing" a 460 can be a bear in emissions compliant trucks. not much you can do that is legal in a state that has inpections. Even if you did, say you upgraded an intake (who sells an aftermarket 460 efi intake? I've never seen one.) injectors, fuel pump and everything else, to you disappointment, most if not all 460's utilize the EEC Speed density setup which in turn makes your performance parts junk, as it will perform to the computer's programmed limitations and not let the installed performance parts "perform".
I agree that the late model EFI 460s were challenged. However, the speed density system did not effect performance with simple bolt-ons (air filters, headers, ETC). I built/raced a speed density 5.0 EFI mustang in the early 90s that ran high 11s naturally aspirated with a stock camshaft and injectors. SD relied on engine vacuum to determine A/F ratio and was not effected until larger camshafts were installed thus reducing engine vacuum. Ford programmed the EEC IV to run extremely lean in the EFI 460. EFI 460s had an issue with cracked exhaust manifolds because of this. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator was a quick fix or you could also step up to a mass air conversion. I worked on quite a few of them in the 90s and the biggest improvement you could make, was installing an adjustable timing chain. The camshaft timing was purposely retarded from the factory and SVO (now FRPP) actually offerd a kit to advance it. They wouldn't even turn the tires beforehand, but after the timing chain, it actually had some guts.
There is no comparison between a 95' 460 and an 01-07' V10. The V10 is more effiecent and has a much wider powerband. A 99 V10 is pretty close stock VS stock, to a 460. Ask me how I know
Marcus
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
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I also had a 87 speed desnsity mustang 5.0 and added cobra intake, headers, 10.2:1 pistons, frpp camshaft and many other parts and the thing fell on its face until I did a MAF swap. wouldn't idle, miss until 2300 rpm, CEL on all time. MAF was a must when it came to even the first part added.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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wrench said...
"Good post Gojoe and the 460's mediocre towing performance and awesome thirst for fuel was what got so many of us into diesels. The incredible towing performance and decent mileage of the V10 has got a few of us back to gas"
and it is worth repeating
"Good post Gojoe and the 460's mediocre towing performance and awesome thirst for fuel was what got so many of us into diesels. The incredible towing performance and decent mileage of the V10 has got a few of us back to gas"
I owned just about every BB Ford motor ever made and hot rod or modified EVERY one until this wonderful 415 v10 came along...First motor ever that I owned that did NOT need "adjusting with Edlebrock, Crowler, Ed Pink's, Acell, Hedman, Thorley, or Holly help..... if DOHCMaurader wants to wax nostalgic over bloated push rod, cast iron junk so be it,,,,,
I love the fact that the puny V10 will out Hp, out torque, and out fuel efficiency the horrid 460!... and this if from and old fool who would chain up his 460 to any stinking 454 and day any time any where!
"Good post Gojoe and the 460's mediocre towing performance and awesome thirst for fuel was what got so many of us into diesels. The incredible towing performance and decent mileage of the V10 has got a few of us back to gas"
and it is worth repeating
"Good post Gojoe and the 460's mediocre towing performance and awesome thirst for fuel was what got so many of us into diesels. The incredible towing performance and decent mileage of the V10 has got a few of us back to gas"
I owned just about every BB Ford motor ever made and hot rod or modified EVERY one until this wonderful 415 v10 came along...First motor ever that I owned that did NOT need "adjusting with Edlebrock, Crowler, Ed Pink's, Acell, Hedman, Thorley, or Holly help..... if DOHCMaurader wants to wax nostalgic over bloated push rod, cast iron junk so be it,,,,,
I love the fact that the puny V10 will out Hp, out torque, and out fuel efficiency the horrid 460!... and this if from and old fool who would chain up his 460 to any stinking 454 and day any time any where!
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Senior User
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I admit it, I'm a 460 fan, not a fan of the V-10. I shake my head at the balance shaft and other devices used to eliminate harmonics when it wasn't necessary. Chrysler got it right, why Ford didn't I'll never know. The 5 cylinder Audi/VW has been around for decades, so at the very least, one can say the V-10 was over engineered.
I don't buy into the smaller displacement arguments either. If one thinks of the engine as an air pump, which it is, which one do you think pumps more air: 7.5L@3000RPM, or 6.8@4400RPM? The way I see it, Ford's V-10 is a small block with two more cylinders...
I don't buy into the smaller displacement arguments either. If one thinks of the engine as an air pump, which it is, which one do you think pumps more air: 7.5L@3000RPM, or 6.8@4400RPM? The way I see it, Ford's V-10 is a small block with two more cylinders...
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by 69-highboy
Chrysler got it right, why Ford didn't I'll never know.
The Ford V10 is an even-fire setup, hence the balancing shaft.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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NOBODY'S power band started as low as and lasted as long as the 415 6.8L Triton V10.... curious huh... I take the balance shaft thank you...and all that smooth pure torque curve with it....
OH yes before I forget... all my 460s made very impressive hp and torque... but that danged things would not motivate my 2 thousand pound lighter trucks down the freeway as fuel efficiently as this puny 415 does my 7800 pound SuperDuty.... in fact if I added a ton of junk in the bed then the 460 would punish me further with a whooping 6 MPG trip instead of it's stellar 9MPG empty average..... I am ecstatic that my 7800 pound 4 door long bed larger scale truck with 5200 pound cargo rating can zoom down the same roads at 12.5 mpg empty and 9.7MPG loaded down.... yep...think I will let all the nostalgic love hate for the 460 slip into memory lane as I pass by with a superior motor trany drive train that does not punish me with the constant tinkering and feeding the mighty 460 did
OH yes before I forget... all my 460s made very impressive hp and torque... but that danged things would not motivate my 2 thousand pound lighter trucks down the freeway as fuel efficiently as this puny 415 does my 7800 pound SuperDuty.... in fact if I added a ton of junk in the bed then the 460 would punish me further with a whooping 6 MPG trip instead of it's stellar 9MPG empty average..... I am ecstatic that my 7800 pound 4 door long bed larger scale truck with 5200 pound cargo rating can zoom down the same roads at 12.5 mpg empty and 9.7MPG loaded down.... yep...think I will let all the nostalgic love hate for the 460 slip into memory lane as I pass by with a superior motor trany drive train that does not punish me with the constant tinkering and feeding the mighty 460 did
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,166
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From: Chino, California
Originally Posted by 69-highboy
I admit it, I'm a 460 fan, not a fan of the V-10. I shake my head at the balance shaft and other devices used to eliminate harmonics when it wasn't necessary. Chrysler got it right, why Ford didn't I'll never know. The 5 cylinder Audi/VW has been around for decades, so at the very least, one can say the V-10 was over engineered.
I don't buy into the smaller displacement arguments either. If one thinks of the engine as an air pump, which it is, which one do you think pumps more air: 7.5L@3000RPM, or 6.8@4400RPM? The way I see it, Ford's V-10 is a small block with two more cylinders...
I don't buy into the smaller displacement arguments either. If one thinks of the engine as an air pump, which it is, which one do you think pumps more air: 7.5L@3000RPM, or 6.8@4400RPM? The way I see it, Ford's V-10 is a small block with two more cylinders...
I don't care if anyone wants to live in the past. Old engineering is fun to putz around with and make hotrods. But just because you can't tweak it or need to, don't turn your nose up at it.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 851
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From: On top of a big hill...
Who cares?
I love it when Triton V10 detractors call this engine a "small-block" as if that's some sort of insult! Like I'm gonna lose my cool and get mad 'cause someone says the engine in my F250 isn't a "big-block". The big-block is a dinosaur, a figment of a bygone era similar to a dodo bird. Now useless to most, missed by few and an inefficient waste of gas and cast iron to all. Good riddance and R.I.P.. 
Who gives a ****e if the V10 it's a small block or a big block or maybe even a mid-block??
All I know is it works & it won't break. Plus, hot women think they're cool and the guy driving one has his act together.
Anybody ever have a hot girl come up to you and say "Wanna take me for a ride in your 15 year old oil-burning slow-assed big-block pickup?"! I thought as much.
Who gives a ****e if the V10 it's a small block or a big block or maybe even a mid-block??
All I know is it works & it won't break. Plus, hot women think they're cool and the guy driving one has his act together.Anybody ever have a hot girl come up to you and say "Wanna take me for a ride in your 15 year old oil-burning slow-assed big-block pickup?"! I thought as much.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Fredvon4
..... if DOHCMaurader wants to wax nostalgic over bloated push rod, cast iron junk s
What are you babbling about???
In case it escaped you, I am a V10 supporter. (not so much a POS 4100R supporter).
Even though I think OHC technology is kind of a waste for a 2 valve wedge head.....it lends itself well to multivalve tech.
Last edited by DOHCmarauder; Aug 15, 2007 at 11:07 PM.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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Maurader with cams..... I did not say you were not a V10 fan...Many of your posts in this and several other threads, (bemoaning the fact that Ford could/should have evolved the 460 further), sounds to me like you really really liked the BB 460.... I do not think that waxing nostalgic, about what coulda been, is necessarily a bad thing...
I am certainly not "Babbling".... just weighing in with my opinion... V10 415CI...Yea! V8 460 Boo!
I am certainly not "Babbling".... just weighing in with my opinion... V10 415CI...Yea! V8 460 Boo!