oil question
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
Update
Below is the response from my most recent inquiry where I asked specifically for the numerical data that compared the Amsoil products to the Shell products they had referenced in their first reply. Essentially, they have offered more context, but still no numbers. They did, however, say that silicone is the additive package component that is used to combat foaming, but that excessive quantities of it can actually enhance foaming (a chemical phenomenon that I know to be true for many other chemicals in different processes). I have asked for specific guidelines on how much silicone is enough, and how much is too much. Hopefully, they will get more specific. 
Amsoil's reply from their TechService group.
Pete,
Our laboratory conducted research investigating the actual foam test(s) that many Ford salespeople or Ford mechanics describe. Our foam tests correspond to the ASTM D892-92 “Standard Test Method for Foaming Characteristics of Lubricating Oils” test procedures. In order to meet API CG-4 requirements (which AMSOIL diesels oils do meet i.e. our bottle labels), the oil has to meet the parameters of this testing procedure. These procedures are laid out in great detail in the ASTM (American Society of Testing and Materials) “Annual Book of ASTM Standards”.
Regardless of how motor oils perform, all oils contain anti-foam additive systems. Silicone is the primary anti-foam additive used in motor oils. One problem with this additive is that a small amount of silicone is beneficial in reducing the occurrence of foaming, but if the silicone concentration is increased it does the opposite and begins to facilitate foaming in motor oils.
What was found through oil analysis on various models of the Ford 7.3 and 6.0 liter Diesel Engine is the slow increase of silicone levels in these engines due to the type of gasket and seal materials used which is RTV Silicone. As the silicone leaches into the oil, it increases the potential for the oil to trap air and begin foaming. The simple method for correcting this problem is by changing the oil in the crankcase. This will instantly correct the problem since it essentially reduces the silicone level in the oil back to its normal concentration.
If such an occurrence develops, and the mechanic or dealership is claiming it is the motor oil used, either synthetic or petroleum, have a sample drawn and an oil analysis performed. Typically this will illustrate an excessive level of silicone present in the lubricant. However, no one diesel engine oil is going to correct the problem. If a new synthetic diesel engine oil was installed, it would perform well, in fact, exactly the same as it would with the manufacturer recommended diesel engine oil (until it become contaminated again). As your vehicle accumulates miles, the problem will lessen and oil will be usable for a longer time.
Amsoil's reply from their TechService group.
Pete,
Our laboratory conducted research investigating the actual foam test(s) that many Ford salespeople or Ford mechanics describe. Our foam tests correspond to the ASTM D892-92 “Standard Test Method for Foaming Characteristics of Lubricating Oils” test procedures. In order to meet API CG-4 requirements (which AMSOIL diesels oils do meet i.e. our bottle labels), the oil has to meet the parameters of this testing procedure. These procedures are laid out in great detail in the ASTM (American Society of Testing and Materials) “Annual Book of ASTM Standards”.
Regardless of how motor oils perform, all oils contain anti-foam additive systems. Silicone is the primary anti-foam additive used in motor oils. One problem with this additive is that a small amount of silicone is beneficial in reducing the occurrence of foaming, but if the silicone concentration is increased it does the opposite and begins to facilitate foaming in motor oils.
What was found through oil analysis on various models of the Ford 7.3 and 6.0 liter Diesel Engine is the slow increase of silicone levels in these engines due to the type of gasket and seal materials used which is RTV Silicone. As the silicone leaches into the oil, it increases the potential for the oil to trap air and begin foaming. The simple method for correcting this problem is by changing the oil in the crankcase. This will instantly correct the problem since it essentially reduces the silicone level in the oil back to its normal concentration.
If such an occurrence develops, and the mechanic or dealership is claiming it is the motor oil used, either synthetic or petroleum, have a sample drawn and an oil analysis performed. Typically this will illustrate an excessive level of silicone present in the lubricant. However, no one diesel engine oil is going to correct the problem. If a new synthetic diesel engine oil was installed, it would perform well, in fact, exactly the same as it would with the manufacturer recommended diesel engine oil (until it become contaminated again). As your vehicle accumulates miles, the problem will lessen and oil will be usable for a longer time.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 180
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From: McAllen, Texas
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
Ok, that is good enough for me. No more synthetic in my engine for any reason.
here, but ran diesel in my earlier life in multiple Off shore boats and SUV's. Turbo and w/o. The diesel guys (real old geeks) always mentioned this same thing, use good dino, that's what they like. As well the farmers who run the tractors around the clock. So that I did when bought my new baby here. Also the Firestone guy (whom I have trusted all my cars, even the Audi) told the same thing, only dino.
And my truck feels ok with it, loud as hell, as it is supposed to be (hey, it is Ford anyway)
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
Updated reply from AmsoilTech
Finally got the numbers they say they run by and recommend regarding silicon. What they don't do is talk about the fact that what everyone is measuring is Si, which is the elemental silicon atom, which is a component in the molecular backbone of silcone oil additives that the TechService team at Amsoila ddressed earlier (it's relationship to foaming). Apparently, since everyone is measuring the elemental form of silicon, there is no way to distinguish between the presence of a silicone additive or silcon from a contamination source (like sand or dirt), which is why they sort of backed up and took this last stance without any mention of "too much silicone".
The Amsoil response, verbatim, is below.
Charles,
Below is a chart provided by International that offers oil condemning limits in PPM for the 7.3L and 6.0L diesel engnies. Please keep in mind that these are very general recommendations and other factors may apply. We normally condemn the oil or recommend filter changes when Silicon reaches 50 to 75 PPM in any engine as this can also be an indicator of abrasive dirt ingestion.
Thanks again,
Ed
EDIT: Their "chart" looked crappy, so I posted a pic of their chart instead.
The Amsoil response, verbatim, is below.
Charles,
Below is a chart provided by International that offers oil condemning limits in PPM for the 7.3L and 6.0L diesel engnies. Please keep in mind that these are very general recommendations and other factors may apply. We normally condemn the oil or recommend filter changes when Silicon reaches 50 to 75 PPM in any engine as this can also be an indicator of abrasive dirt ingestion.
Thanks again,
Ed
EDIT: Their "chart" looked crappy, so I posted a pic of their chart instead.
Last edited by F250_; May 21, 2007 at 08:35 AM.
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