V10 Motorhome ?'s
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,733
Likes: 38
Sigtauenus ???? just curious I can usually decipher a screen name
Your post; Wow, what a great thread. I have a 97 Fleetwood, 20' Class C with a V-10. I bought it used with 90,000 miles and it now has 107,000.
Sounds like a great rig...congrats!
Since I've owned it I've done regular oil changes and did the trans service not long after I bought it, and I did a radiator drain and fill and flushed the brake lines (if you haven't done this, I recommend it, the fluid that came out was nasty). I haven't done the plugs, hoses or belts yet. After reading this, I think I need to get on those before the next trip.
Good Idea
My Class C is built on an E-series chassis, which means you don't get any real engine access from the hood, and about as much access from the engine cover below the dash. Is there any tips to getting to the plugs on this engine?
Only tip is a good attitude and read carefully the various how too threads on the subject in this forum... not too many of us have done it on the van conversions but since it is such a Pain in the butt on a truck you can be assured we all feel your pain!
From looking at the engine from the front, it appears like there is only one accessory belt. Is that correct?
Normally there is just one serpentine belt for the Factory FEAD (Front engine accessory drive) It really is easy to replace, but I have not worn one out yet even on my old PSD powered SuperDuty that factory belt was on when I sold it... look for cracks and holes punched through from small debris...motor homes sit more then they run so dry rot cracking will be your clue if it is good or not
Somebody mentioned getting the a/c serviced, is that something that needs to be done if it is still blowing cold?
I think a complete vacuum and recharge every 3 or 4 years is good preventative maintenance just to make sure all the water and crap is evacuated and new oil is circulating... YMMV
This is a dumb question, but does this engine have a timing belt or chain? If it is a belt, what is the recommended change interval?
This motor has single overhead cam on each bank. It is a chain drive affair and it appears that the chains last well beyond 150,000 miles of normal driving... I bet yours is good as day one and would not worry any about it until you hear noises from up front after 175K miles
What exactly does a transmission flush and fill do for you over a drain and fill? My intention with this transmission is to do a drain and fill about every 20,000 miles, or sooner if the fluid doesn't appear clean and pink. At 107,000 miles, do I really need a transmission rebuild already?
The trany you have is a 4R100 and from the factory was assembled with inferior parts. By about 2000~2001 the aftermarket kicked in with MUCH stronger internals... you do not need to see the racing re-builders to get a true "bullet proof" trans these days because every rebuild will only put in the new heavy duty parts and you do not need the special attention to the valve shifting timing and increased line pressure mods. If your travels have you in the tall mountains I highly recommend a additional Aux trany oil cooler be added and serious thoughts to a rebuild
The trany holds 17 quarts...if you just drain and fill you only get about 9~12 of all those out... no big deal if the original fluid is not badly oxidized or cooked... a power flush theoretically cycles fluid through the trans as it is being changed supposedly pushing out all the bad fluid... My preferred method is to drain and fill with cheap fluid drive up to operating temp and then drain and refill with the name brand expensive fluid...l Prefer the MotorCraft brand for Ford equipment..as best bang for the buck and very good quality lubricannts....gain YMMV
What is "plug blow out?"
A very real problem for those who have it... and a serious pain in the butt to fix. Basically the Aluminum head has very few plug threads and the steel plug is a dissimilar metal... and the butt heads at Ford decided that marketing a 100,000 miles before service needed all contribute to Plug Blow out. If the Plug is over torqued (real easy to do with out a torque wrench) the threads in the head will crack and eventually you will launch that plug... if the plug is under torqued (not as easy to do but it happens when plugs are set finger tight and not final torqued) that plug will eventually launch also. And is the original plugs are old plain steel then eventually water, antifreeze, and dissimilar metal electrolysis corrosion will weep down the threads and that plug will launch... FoMoCo will usually replace a 1500Dollar head assy before just repairing the hole that is stripped... there are several repairs that can be done with out removing the heads and two of them work very well.... don't wait for a plug to blow change yours to the new nickle/Zinc plated plugs and torque them to no more the 160~168 inch pounds...don't even screw with a foot pound torque wrench here
BTW plug blow out is very rare but 100% preventable and 100% repairable if it happens.... and if it happens...just drive the motor off the mountain it will not hurt the v10 to run on 9 cylinders for a while (no smoking under the hood there will be raw fuel every where)
Your post; Wow, what a great thread. I have a 97 Fleetwood, 20' Class C with a V-10. I bought it used with 90,000 miles and it now has 107,000.
Sounds like a great rig...congrats!
Since I've owned it I've done regular oil changes and did the trans service not long after I bought it, and I did a radiator drain and fill and flushed the brake lines (if you haven't done this, I recommend it, the fluid that came out was nasty). I haven't done the plugs, hoses or belts yet. After reading this, I think I need to get on those before the next trip.
Good Idea
My Class C is built on an E-series chassis, which means you don't get any real engine access from the hood, and about as much access from the engine cover below the dash. Is there any tips to getting to the plugs on this engine?
Only tip is a good attitude and read carefully the various how too threads on the subject in this forum... not too many of us have done it on the van conversions but since it is such a Pain in the butt on a truck you can be assured we all feel your pain!
From looking at the engine from the front, it appears like there is only one accessory belt. Is that correct?
Normally there is just one serpentine belt for the Factory FEAD (Front engine accessory drive) It really is easy to replace, but I have not worn one out yet even on my old PSD powered SuperDuty that factory belt was on when I sold it... look for cracks and holes punched through from small debris...motor homes sit more then they run so dry rot cracking will be your clue if it is good or not
Somebody mentioned getting the a/c serviced, is that something that needs to be done if it is still blowing cold?
I think a complete vacuum and recharge every 3 or 4 years is good preventative maintenance just to make sure all the water and crap is evacuated and new oil is circulating... YMMV
This is a dumb question, but does this engine have a timing belt or chain? If it is a belt, what is the recommended change interval?
This motor has single overhead cam on each bank. It is a chain drive affair and it appears that the chains last well beyond 150,000 miles of normal driving... I bet yours is good as day one and would not worry any about it until you hear noises from up front after 175K miles
What exactly does a transmission flush and fill do for you over a drain and fill? My intention with this transmission is to do a drain and fill about every 20,000 miles, or sooner if the fluid doesn't appear clean and pink. At 107,000 miles, do I really need a transmission rebuild already?
The trany you have is a 4R100 and from the factory was assembled with inferior parts. By about 2000~2001 the aftermarket kicked in with MUCH stronger internals... you do not need to see the racing re-builders to get a true "bullet proof" trans these days because every rebuild will only put in the new heavy duty parts and you do not need the special attention to the valve shifting timing and increased line pressure mods. If your travels have you in the tall mountains I highly recommend a additional Aux trany oil cooler be added and serious thoughts to a rebuild
The trany holds 17 quarts...if you just drain and fill you only get about 9~12 of all those out... no big deal if the original fluid is not badly oxidized or cooked... a power flush theoretically cycles fluid through the trans as it is being changed supposedly pushing out all the bad fluid... My preferred method is to drain and fill with cheap fluid drive up to operating temp and then drain and refill with the name brand expensive fluid...l Prefer the MotorCraft brand for Ford equipment..as best bang for the buck and very good quality lubricannts....gain YMMV
What is "plug blow out?"
A very real problem for those who have it... and a serious pain in the butt to fix. Basically the Aluminum head has very few plug threads and the steel plug is a dissimilar metal... and the butt heads at Ford decided that marketing a 100,000 miles before service needed all contribute to Plug Blow out. If the Plug is over torqued (real easy to do with out a torque wrench) the threads in the head will crack and eventually you will launch that plug... if the plug is under torqued (not as easy to do but it happens when plugs are set finger tight and not final torqued) that plug will eventually launch also. And is the original plugs are old plain steel then eventually water, antifreeze, and dissimilar metal electrolysis corrosion will weep down the threads and that plug will launch... FoMoCo will usually replace a 1500Dollar head assy before just repairing the hole that is stripped... there are several repairs that can be done with out removing the heads and two of them work very well.... don't wait for a plug to blow change yours to the new nickle/Zinc plated plugs and torque them to no more the 160~168 inch pounds...don't even screw with a foot pound torque wrench here
BTW plug blow out is very rare but 100% preventable and 100% repairable if it happens.... and if it happens...just drive the motor off the mountain it will not hurt the v10 to run on 9 cylinders for a while (no smoking under the hood there will be raw fuel every where)
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted by Fredvon4
Sigtauenus ???? just curious I can usually decipher a screen name
For those who are curious, Sig Tau, short for Sigma Tau Gamma, was my fraternity at Penn State, and Enus was my nickname there. Think deputy on the Dukes of Hazzard and that will clue you in.
Anyhow, I've now registered sigtauenus on 10's, possibly even 100's of websites, forums, internet emails, etc, and never once been denied use of that username.
Ahem, please don't take this as a challenge to go out and find places I haven't registered at and take it from me, I'm just pointing out that it is nice to have picked such a unique user name.
Fredvon4, thank you for thoroughness of not only answering my questions completely, but changing font color too... made for very easy reading.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,679
Likes: 15
From: BC, Canada
Sig, you might find that replacing the plugs isn't really as bad as it first looks. Start by removing the air cleaner assembly to access the front of the engine. I can't remember how many plugs are done from each end but you can get at a few from the front.
The rest get done from inside the cab. I always remove the seats first. It gives you way more room to work and makes the job easier. It only takes a few minutes to remove them. After that the COPs are pretty easy to see. Move or remove any hoses etc that are in the way. Mark them or take pictures so you know where everything goes back on. Most things will only fit one way anyway but it still might help.
With the air cleaner assembly off the FEAD belt is pretty easy to replace too.
The rest get done from inside the cab. I always remove the seats first. It gives you way more room to work and makes the job easier. It only takes a few minutes to remove them. After that the COPs are pretty easy to see. Move or remove any hoses etc that are in the way. Mark them or take pictures so you know where everything goes back on. Most things will only fit one way anyway but it still might help.
With the air cleaner assembly off the FEAD belt is pretty easy to replace too.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,733
Likes: 38
retired75 asks : "I would like to know of any pro or cons about using a K&N air filter on 1999 V10 on a motor home chassis"??
The pros: not really any except much longer filter life if serviced properly
The cons: initial costs, maintenance time, passes more small particle matter into motor initially until the gauze is properly loaded with trapped matter.
The K&N and all other replacements for the factory pleated parer filters do flow more total air volume at 3/4 to full WOT throttle positions... but at RPMs where the motor is 85/90% of the time 1900~2500 there is zero difference as the factory system is NOT restrictive in that range...
NOW.... because you added the little info about you 99 Motor home I have to add that you could have a Van Conversion E350/E450 Class C Chassis or a F53 based chassis... If your's is a Van E-350/E450 version you have a reduced power V10 because the intake system is significantly RESTRICTED but NOT by the air filter..simply the entire intake plumbing is not very efficient. I know there are folks who added the K&N or other gauze type and claim significantly improved throttle response and a few who claim better MPG and high altitude power.
I will also add that my note above about the gauze types passing more particulate matter initially..... should only be a concern to those of us who live in a environment where max filtration is desirable... for example I live and drive predominantly in the Fort Hood Texas area...a majority of our county roads are coliche (sea bed limestone, calcium, and silica based dust) and we have a much higher need for good filters. If you live in an area with simple dirt and pollen dust then you might bias your filter needs for max air flow and accept that some particles getting into the motor will not be as abrasive.
I personally think the efficiency of the factory filters are already very good and change them every other oil change or about twice a year for an annual cost of less then $50 bucks and less then 3 minutes of my time... I own and run many versions of the K&N filters on my racing machines... cleaning, drying, and properly oiling a gauze filter is not as easy and consumes much more time
There are the pros and cons from my perspective.... only to add this... I like the K&N product over all the others but I think all their advertising hype is way over stated and boarders of insanely ludicras...YMMV
The pros: not really any except much longer filter life if serviced properly
The cons: initial costs, maintenance time, passes more small particle matter into motor initially until the gauze is properly loaded with trapped matter.
The K&N and all other replacements for the factory pleated parer filters do flow more total air volume at 3/4 to full WOT throttle positions... but at RPMs where the motor is 85/90% of the time 1900~2500 there is zero difference as the factory system is NOT restrictive in that range...
NOW.... because you added the little info about you 99 Motor home I have to add that you could have a Van Conversion E350/E450 Class C Chassis or a F53 based chassis... If your's is a Van E-350/E450 version you have a reduced power V10 because the intake system is significantly RESTRICTED but NOT by the air filter..simply the entire intake plumbing is not very efficient. I know there are folks who added the K&N or other gauze type and claim significantly improved throttle response and a few who claim better MPG and high altitude power.
I will also add that my note above about the gauze types passing more particulate matter initially..... should only be a concern to those of us who live in a environment where max filtration is desirable... for example I live and drive predominantly in the Fort Hood Texas area...a majority of our county roads are coliche (sea bed limestone, calcium, and silica based dust) and we have a much higher need for good filters. If you live in an area with simple dirt and pollen dust then you might bias your filter needs for max air flow and accept that some particles getting into the motor will not be as abrasive.
I personally think the efficiency of the factory filters are already very good and change them every other oil change or about twice a year for an annual cost of less then $50 bucks and less then 3 minutes of my time... I own and run many versions of the K&N filters on my racing machines... cleaning, drying, and properly oiling a gauze filter is not as easy and consumes much more time
There are the pros and cons from my perspective.... only to add this... I like the K&N product over all the others but I think all their advertising hype is way over stated and boarders of insanely ludicras...YMMV
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 234
Likes: 1
From: Bristol, RI
I just feel like playing the opposite side of the fence from Fred for a minute. A do not disagree with Fred but, I want to add that you may find the K&N more benficial than someone who drives a later model pickup because:
1. you have to lower rated v10
2. With a motorhome, you always have 'extra weight' and a probably always closer to the v10s limits.
3. If you live in a hilly or mountainous region, you may be at 3/4 to WOT more often than you think.
Take my thoughts with a grain of salt because although I had my v10 pickup for a while, and towed my TT for at least 50% of the miles, I have put less than 100 miles on my v10 motorhome so far.
1. you have to lower rated v10
2. With a motorhome, you always have 'extra weight' and a probably always closer to the v10s limits.
3. If you live in a hilly or mountainous region, you may be at 3/4 to WOT more often than you think.
Take my thoughts with a grain of salt because although I had my v10 pickup for a while, and towed my TT for at least 50% of the miles, I have put less than 100 miles on my v10 motorhome so far.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,733
Likes: 38
There is noting in tps0424's post that I would disagree with
I will add that the K&N is a good product and will pass more air under max throttle conditions... in fact that is why I use them in my racing motors... if you do diligent prep, good cleaning, and do not get too heavy with the oil... then the gauze types do have an edge in high altitude low gear 3/4 to WOT applications
I will add that the K&N is a good product and will pass more air under max throttle conditions... in fact that is why I use them in my racing motors... if you do diligent prep, good cleaning, and do not get too heavy with the oil... then the gauze types do have an edge in high altitude low gear 3/4 to WOT applications
New User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
I did install an air intake just behind the grill opening with a four inch flex pipe to the factory inlet to filter housing.I just figured if I could get more air to the filter housing and through a K&N filter,that there would be an improvement in engine performance.In the motorhome stock configiration it looked like engine was'nt getting the air it needed.The opening on the stock intake to the filter housing is behind a solid a part of the front end fiberglass, which I would think would be out of any air stream to get a good supply of air to the engine.I have been in a couple of rain storms and so far the filter has'nt been flooded with water with this setup.I am not saying it won't happen,just that it has'nt happened yet.So far I like the setup.There seems to an improvement.To soon to tell for sure.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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retired75
You are describing a variation to the "zoodad" mod... named for a guy on the diesel site who did a similar mod to get more fresh air to the front of the air box
many of us have done something similar.... I live in an area of the country that can get 6~8 inches of rain in an hour sometimes... this makes the run on the highway back down to under 40 MPH... I used to be concerned about the water ingestion but after being on one of those deluges I checked the filter and it was damp in only a small area and passing plenty of air in the dry sections. I keep a spare filter in case I have to do a couple of hours in very heavy rain... in the last 7 years I have not needed it.
You are describing a variation to the "zoodad" mod... named for a guy on the diesel site who did a similar mod to get more fresh air to the front of the air box
many of us have done something similar.... I live in an area of the country that can get 6~8 inches of rain in an hour sometimes... this makes the run on the highway back down to under 40 MPH... I used to be concerned about the water ingestion but after being on one of those deluges I checked the filter and it was damp in only a small area and passing plenty of air in the dry sections. I keep a spare filter in case I have to do a couple of hours in very heavy rain... in the last 7 years I have not needed it.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: MA
Just to update:
Well thanks to all the help from this forum (especially Fredvon4 & Kerwat!) I think I'm getting my rig ready to roll.
Hade tires & shocks done last week (real P.I.A. on the F53 chasis!).
It's now in for tranny fluid & filter, Hoses, Belts, A/C recharge.
(Also found a TSB on the 4R100's slam shifting at times - This is a problem with the speed sensor and is fixed with a new PCM ground cable. - so that's being taken care of.)
Next I'll take care of the Oil/Filter/Lube.
Then the dreaded PLUG change!
(I've printed out lots of the step x step info & shoul be ready to tackle it!)
Got my fingers crossed that all goes well & we'll be able to head to Myrtle Beach for April vacation in a couple weeks.
Well thanks to all the help from this forum (especially Fredvon4 & Kerwat!) I think I'm getting my rig ready to roll.
Hade tires & shocks done last week (real P.I.A. on the F53 chasis!).
It's now in for tranny fluid & filter, Hoses, Belts, A/C recharge.
(Also found a TSB on the 4R100's slam shifting at times - This is a problem with the speed sensor and is fixed with a new PCM ground cable. - so that's being taken care of.)
Next I'll take care of the Oil/Filter/Lube.
Then the dreaded PLUG change!
(I've printed out lots of the step x step info & shoul be ready to tackle it!)
Got my fingers crossed that all goes well & we'll be able to head to Myrtle Beach for April vacation in a couple weeks.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by EXPYBOAT01
Will these boots be OK???
Matter of fact, I don't really think there's more than one company making the darn things... and I don't buy into the whole "aftermarket parts are OEM parts that didn't meet the manufacturers specs".
Anyway, just use dialectric grease on both ends, and the seal lip where it seals at the top of the hole, and be done with it.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by EXPYBOAT01
I haven't taken the old ones off yet - just wondering what are the springs that come with the plugs boot? Do these slide inside the boot before installing?