Group Tech Article Input - Welding
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
No, a spot welder looks like a large clamping device. You hold two pieces of metal between the jaws and hit a button, a current passes thru the metal fusing the metal at the point of most resistance: the interface between the two pieces. Spot welding is used a lot in automobile manufacturing and is recognizable by a slightly depressed "dot" along the edge of a panel indicating where the pieces fused. See Harbor Freight #45689-3VGA
The Eastwood device basically reduces the amperage of a buzzbox in 1/2 to use it on thinner metals.
Starting and stopping with your mig machine (when used with fluxcore wire is actually not unlike the stitch welder in operation) should not put any undue stress on the machine. If your son can weld sheetmetal with it go for it, you must be careful to remove any traces of the flux left on the metal tho. That's the rub with using fluxcore on sheet metal, as you can't use a chipping hammer for flux removal.
The Eastwood device basically reduces the amperage of a buzzbox in 1/2 to use it on thinner metals.
Starting and stopping with your mig machine (when used with fluxcore wire is actually not unlike the stitch welder in operation) should not put any undue stress on the machine. If your son can weld sheetmetal with it go for it, you must be careful to remove any traces of the flux left on the metal tho. That's the rub with using fluxcore on sheet metal, as you can't use a chipping hammer for flux removal.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
interesting aside: welding technology is being adapted by the jewelry industry to replace the traditional torch brazing. We have a tackwelder that works on the same principal as a spot welder, and now they have come out with a miniaturized TIG machine complete with shielding gas. Our industry is one step ahead tho, we have available laser welders!
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,654
Likes: 0
From: Bossier City, LA
Well since AX did the Welding, I guess I'll do the cutting.
Plasma
Thin Steel: Excellent
Thick Steel: V. Good to Excellent (large or small machine)
Aluminum: V. Good
Stainless: Good
Pros, no gas needed, available in 115v units, very limited capacity though, easy to use. Can make, or purchase a pantograph to copy parts, cutouts, or shapes. Little warpage of workpiece.
Cons, need good air compressor that will keep up as you are cutting, inexperienced operators will tend to use up consumables like crazy, consumables are expensive. Overall depending on machine capability, very expensive.
Learning curve, easy, or as much as your wallet will let you.
Flame cutting (Oxy Acet, Oxy Prop. Oxy Mapp)
Thin Steel: poor to fair (depending to operator skill level)
Thick Steel: V.Good to Excellent
Aluminum: No
Stainless: Possible but again operator skill level applies
Cons, Can't cut aluminum, hard to precision cut stainless, warpage expected on thin materials. Bottles, as mentioned before storage and when your out, your out.
Pros, Very cheap, very clean, easy to maintain.
Learning curve: difficult to very difficult depending on how clean, straight cuts are needed.
Ryan
Plasma
Thin Steel: Excellent
Thick Steel: V. Good to Excellent (large or small machine)
Aluminum: V. Good
Stainless: Good
Pros, no gas needed, available in 115v units, very limited capacity though, easy to use. Can make, or purchase a pantograph to copy parts, cutouts, or shapes. Little warpage of workpiece.
Cons, need good air compressor that will keep up as you are cutting, inexperienced operators will tend to use up consumables like crazy, consumables are expensive. Overall depending on machine capability, very expensive.
Learning curve, easy, or as much as your wallet will let you.
Flame cutting (Oxy Acet, Oxy Prop. Oxy Mapp)
Thin Steel: poor to fair (depending to operator skill level)
Thick Steel: V.Good to Excellent
Aluminum: No
Stainless: Possible but again operator skill level applies
Cons, Can't cut aluminum, hard to precision cut stainless, warpage expected on thin materials. Bottles, as mentioned before storage and when your out, your out.
Pros, Very cheap, very clean, easy to maintain.
Learning curve: difficult to very difficult depending on how clean, straight cuts are needed.
Ryan
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
If you are good with a torch, you can cut the nut off a bolt and not ruin the threads - or a stuck bearing and race off a shaft. Try that with your plasma cutter!
It just takes practice. Most people think you need to melt a pool of metal in order to cut - you don't. It is hard to describe but all you need is a very small hot spot, and then hit it with the oxygen blast - which yields a sharp edge cut that does not require extensive clean up.
It just takes practice. Most people think you need to melt a pool of metal in order to cut - you don't. It is hard to describe but all you need is a very small hot spot, and then hit it with the oxygen blast - which yields a sharp edge cut that does not require extensive clean up.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,654
Likes: 0
From: Bossier City, LA
Well personally I would rate a cutting and welding outfit way above a plasma in terms of need now in the garage. I have removen bolts by washing them out without damaging the threads. I agree wholeheartedly, some people have a knack for burning, others don't. Rarely do I use a grinder when buring and welding. Pipeliner file and a properly cleaned tip and properly set fuel and oxygen pressure, and "we don't need no stinking grinder" especially if welding with 6010 or 6011. I'll try to take some pics at work tomorrow and post what the cut jet flame should look like when adjusted properly, and it is not pressure indicative at all. Torch tip size, how much gas is left in the oxy bottle, ect.
Ryan
Ryan
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,958
Likes: 1
I guess maybe for the application you are using here the plasma is not the best tool. I have never used the tiny ones you are talking about that use air. 
Ours used two types of gas (CO2 and Argon [maybe?]) I should not have brought it up here I guess. I am a novice at this yet.
A lot to learn.
However, in a steel shop they are invaluable. You can cut anything with them. Aluminum and stainless are butter. The industrial ones (hand operated) I used to work with would only cut up to 1" thick stainless plate, but some will cut 6" stainless on a CNC burn table. For that matter, they use laser CNC machines to cut stainless now, so its not just jewelery using lasers.
Ours used two types of gas (CO2 and Argon [maybe?]) I should not have brought it up here I guess. I am a novice at this yet.
A lot to learn. However, in a steel shop they are invaluable. You can cut anything with them. Aluminum and stainless are butter. The industrial ones (hand operated) I used to work with would only cut up to 1" thick stainless plate, but some will cut 6" stainless on a CNC burn table. For that matter, they use laser CNC machines to cut stainless now, so its not just jewelery using lasers.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
There are 115V plasma cutters with a built in compressor that are within reach of the home shop budget. My MAC uses an external compressor but it doesn't need to be large. Unlike an OX-AC hot axe where the heated metal is burned away by the high excess of OX, the air is only used to blow the molten metal out of the kerf. Like the MIG, the plasma cutter has a very short learning curve and is very clean cutting with very little heat distortion. I have never tried to split a nut with one, but I think it prolly can be done sucessfully.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
My thoughts were that we should focus on three things -1., what a well equipped home workshop should have, 2., what a beginner should have first, and what needs adding to his equipment in what order as his skills improve and he can afford it. And 3. tips on using the above equipment.
My vote would be for a torch and a stick welder before you start, and then followed by a flux cored wirefeed, with mig gas added later. TIG I do not think adds enough to the home workshop to justify the complexity or expense. A plasma cutter would be the last item I would add - an expensive toy but fun to work with.
My vote would be for a torch and a stick welder before you start, and then followed by a flux cored wirefeed, with mig gas added later. TIG I do not think adds enough to the home workshop to justify the complexity or expense. A plasma cutter would be the last item I would add - an expensive toy but fun to work with.
Last edited by WillyB; Oct 27, 2005 at 11:49 PM.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
I'd go with a torch set and a MIG with shielding gas capabilities over the stick welder and/or the flux wire feed for a neophyte welder setting up a shop. My buzz box is in the back of the storage shed, hasn't been out since I brought the truck home. I use my Hobart 140 MIG just about every day I work on the truck. It sits in the kitchen next to the back door where I can grab it and carry it outside.
I'd suggest putting an autodarkening helmet at the top of the must have list as well.
I'd also suggest setting up a welding station. I bought a 3x4' sheet of 1/8" steel plate for a benchtop and had one long side bent up 4" for a back spark stop. When assembling small parts I clamp the ground cable to the plate and use a couple inexpensive welders magnets and/or visegrips to jig the parts into place for tacking. Always wear 100% cotton or wool clothes and leather work shoes and gloves when welding!
I'd suggest putting an autodarkening helmet at the top of the must have list as well.
I'd also suggest setting up a welding station. I bought a 3x4' sheet of 1/8" steel plate for a benchtop and had one long side bent up 4" for a back spark stop. When assembling small parts I clamp the ground cable to the plate and use a couple inexpensive welders magnets and/or visegrips to jig the parts into place for tacking. Always wear 100% cotton or wool clothes and leather work shoes and gloves when welding!
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 2
From: Riverside, So Cal
I agree with AX. I think he nailed it on first equipment, accessories and work area. I agree that a stick welder is great, but only for the thicker stuff. If I was only doing frame work, it would be an excellent and inexpensive solution, but for sheet metal work on rust repair and body mods, you really need a gas shielded MIG, which will also do the thicker stuff.
I also agree with ***** on the TIG and plasma cutter. They would both be really cool to have, and, of course, I still want both of those someday, but not they aren't essential for the work we usually do.
I also agree with ***** on the TIG and plasma cutter. They would both be really cool to have, and, of course, I still want both of those someday, but not they aren't essential for the work we usually do.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
What about those of us that work outside, or in open pole barns or carports? I understood that shielded gas welding is almost imposable when there is a breeze. Otherwise I would agree about the mig first.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 2
From: Riverside, So Cal
WillyB -
Yeah, wind is a hassle for the gas MIG. In that event, stick would perform better, but not on the thin sheet metal. It just blows that away (and is really messy). I have not been very successful trying to weld anything under 16 gage with flux core, and that is easier on the material than stick.
Yeah, wind is a hassle for the gas MIG. In that event, stick would perform better, but not on the thin sheet metal. It just blows that away (and is really messy). I have not been very successful trying to weld anything under 16 gage with flux core, and that is easier on the material than stick.