Now thats a thought! I might give that a try! Thanks bud.

 

Irondragon used adhesives to replace the back of the cab on his 52 - check out http://www.old-fords.com/welding/glue.htm towards the bottom of the page.

If asked, use "fte" as a user name, and "weld" as a password.

 

Well, it's time for me to spill the beans, WillyB came by and we did a practice run on some 1/4in plate I had cut out (didn't have any frame).

Let me start by saying I have rarely done bottom up welds...

Here's what we did, I had three pieces of 1/4 inch cut to 2 1/2 x 6 inches.

Laid them together, sort of overlapping them with a gap left in the middle about 1 inch. WillyB will have pics which may make it easier to visulaize..

Anyway I went top down on one side (nice looking weld) and bottom up on the other (ugly looking weld). If fact i didn't think the bottom up was good enough so I made another pass bottom up, (ugly too BTW)

And then laid it in the press. After two or three pumps my pretty top down weld started to come loose....

Damn, We pressed it back flat and I ran another top down on it and put it in the press.

Held better, but still, the top down began to peel out of the metal....no issues at all with the bottom up weld.

Did I mention the bottom up was an ugly weld too? Also one I rarely do, if ever?

So, those of you who have said correctly that bottom up was stronger are right.

The welding was done on my Miller Vintage with .035 wire, 75/25 mix.

Only bummer about the whole thing (other than me being wrong ofcourse) is we ran out of wire when WillyB was welding so he didn't get to have a good feel for the Mig...kind of embarrasing on my part..

Soo, no more top downs for me in my future.

 

Question: by chance did you have the torch tip pointed up on both welds? "Pushing" the weld (pointing the torch tip in the direction of travel) will typically produce a more ragged looking but stronger weld, "Dragging" the weld may look prettier but won't get the penetration and is more likely to not center the bead over the seam.

 

Yes,

Tip was pointed up on both, in effect pushing for bottom up, I never considered trying to point the gun down on top-down.

 

Can't add anything to what Mike said, but here are the pictures.

First is of the materials - we layed them flat and tacked them, then welded verticle.

Second is the test jig and third is the completed welds. The nice looking weld is the one he did going down from the top. I thought it was the best weld and worried that we would get a bad test because to bottom up weld was not nearly as good.

 

The forth is a pic of his welder (one of two he had, plus a plasma cutter, plus a stick welder, plus a nice 36 ford, a 48 ford, a 39 dodge, and two more great bowtie projects!)

and the fifth is just to show that I did not do the welding.

 

And, as he stated, the results. Don't you just hate it when you prove someone else is right and you are wrong?

 

Way cool, guys! Will this test make the welding article?

 

Yes, as a sidebar on welding techniques. To me it is just as important to show how to jump in and weld something, and then test your welding, as is the telling of the best way to weld.

I am a beginner and learned a few things yesterday myself. For one thing I have been running my wire feed too fast, and (of course) need a bigger machine.

I also was able to see how the motion of the tip makes for a different weld. While I am not saying I am ready to weld on a frame, I will say that for the first time I can see myself doing so. I'll need a whole lot more practice, but welding is not black magic.

It also helps to know someone able and willing to coach you.

 

I'm going pick up some more wire this week and do the test again, but this time I'll butt weld then, instead of lapping them. I don't know why we didn't do it that way yestreday...in my mind I was trying to mimc something like welding in an IFS where the plates would be lapped over the frame rail.

Also, not sure where my head was at, but I had about a 6 foot piece of 3/16th laying on the floor next to all that box tubing.

And also I need to aplogize for being a poor host, I didn't realize it until I was talking to my wife later that evening, she said "he drove all the way from Madera and you didn't even invite him in for a coke?"

I got wrapped up in showing the various "junk piles of treasure" and it didn't click you had a 1.5 hour drive back home.

Even though we didn't get as much done as we wanted, it sure beat the heck out of sitting in the office on a Monday afternoon!

 

BTW, ecellent camera work...he captured my best side

 

ill tell you that test isnt doesnt mean anything really. its not a proper or an approved testing method for any weld. an actual test would be to butt up too plates with say an 1/8 or so gap and use a backup strip then remove the backup strip and cut 2 1" wide strips out of the plate and bend it in a press.

 

We can do that, if the other's agree it should be done. I don't disagree, just do not know.

But why cut 1" wide strip from the plate? I assume you mean across the weld, or do you mean 1/2 " on either side of the weld? Can you do a quick drawing of what you think we need to do?

 

I believe it's cut across the weld, and you should be able to bend it 180 deg. without fracture...... The 1 " comes from the amount of force needed to bend it. It's obviously much harder to bend a 4" wide piece, and proves nothing that a 1" piece won't show.