PSD 60L Fx4, I want to make sure I understand part of what you posted.

Are you saying 1. restore the original, 2, load the original program again without starting the engine. Or are you saying 1. restore original 2. reload the custom tune 3. restore original without restarting?

Great writeup on how it works.

 

Restore original, dont restart....resintall Diablotune, dont restart, restore original, THEN restart

 

Got it. Makes sense, Thanks..I was reading the PC/ED manual trying to figure what you posted so well. Is that where you derived your info or do you have other documentation? PM me if you like.

 

Most of the information will be there (In the PC/ED section)

 

(a) The season has not yet fully come to run around chasing warranty breakers. More legal skids need to be greased first.

(b) "Big Brother" knowing what your engine is doing is more about emissions, pollution, EPA and govt regulations ... not warranty breaking

(c) Nonetheless ... don't fool yourselves that double-deleting and etc, etc hides anything

(d) But ... once again, chasing warranty-breaking and dishonest use of programmers is not what this is all really about anyway.

 

PSD,
I appreciate your candor!
That is exactly what I was told they are doing now, making a system that will not "loose" the info and will store more parameters so they will be able to tell exactly what has been done. I had a conversation with the dealer yesterday (that will be posted in exhaust in cab thread) but the interesting thing that was said came from someone high up at the dealer. He is older than dirt, been in this for 40 years or so and he said that he doesn't know if Ford can recover financially from this 6.0 mess. I dunno...... BTW, does everyone really think that Ford is watching this site? If so, why?

 

Recover from this 6.0 mess? What mess? You think Ford is losing money by buying a truck back, better think again. If you actually knew what Ford had in this line of SuperDuty per hard fact, it is anticipated and figured into the price you pay. Your going to tell me that Ford has 45,000.00 invested in a truck that sells for 48 or 50....your paying the claims.

I do not see a mess and mine runs fine. I will take my 6.0 over my old 7.3 mess any day. I never had trouble with my 7.3 and I have none with my 6.0 that I would consider it a mess.

I am a Chevrolet person...got it...driving a Ford. Why? Because GM will not fix the problems, and GM will not listen to the consumer. Ford listens to me, is that simple?

Sorry I fell off the deep end, but come on, trash is trash.

 

Gentlemen !?!?! Play nice

 

I said I was sorry......

 

No offense to anyone. I'm just trying to find some things out.. but Powerstroke King, what leads you to believe that "the procedure" described previously would not accomplish what it is purported to do? (How's that for dancing around a question??) Just an interested 6.0 fan.


JB

 

PSD 60 FX4,

I was told by banks exactly what you said that there 6 gun isn't traceable. But get this, I was reading thru the install manual, and on the last page, it tells how to uninstall it. And in big bold letters it says "Failure to follow the above instructions when removings the module will result in a Check Engine light on the dash and a Diagnostic Trouble Code be stored in the factory computer in addition to the engine not running." Do you think banks is pulling our legs?

just my 2 cents

 

For the memory being discussed by PSD, yes, you can come up with clever ways to erase things. For that matter, perhaps we should discuss erasure mechanisms. Are we marking the tables for writable? Is this a hard-erase? Are you writing over with alternating 1's and 0's (special software)? There's a lot more to memory erasure discussion than just the simple mechanisms of loading/re-loading programs. Even in the case of writing programs over the exact physical memory location of another program, a remanence expert can still recover data.

Secondly, this discussion assumes there is no other memory used or being invoked. In that case, this double-delete procedure has no meaning.

But where are we going with this? Think of it like this: Buying someone's corporate product is much like discovering an alien spacecraft, who's complete design you do not know, but you can take it apart, play with it, and discover many of it's uses. You can even try to clone it, reverse engineer it, and etc. This is what the chip companies do. They have many clever ways to enhance your truck, and they take different approaches. The best approach is to alter the output from the last device using memory, change it on the fly, and input that to direct engine controls. Otherwise, playing with the memory on the control modules themselves is like doing the hula dance in front of hungry island natives.

Now, it would seem that the downline change-data-in-real-time approach is best. Well, it certainly eliminates direct evidence, one would think. But think of a murder case: secondary evidence can still convict you, even if you are missing the body. If you create software, which runs secretly, outside the normal "presented" programs, this s/w can, for instance, trigger on MPH readings, RPM readings, voltage levels, and other factors indicating predetermined scenario that the manufacturer thinks represents a case of law-breaking ... or warranty breaking. These scenarios are then hypothetically presented in a court of law, with corporate backing and rock-solid explanation as to how you could ONLY get those conditions from breaking certain rules, and how the data can be certified as true.

But this is not what is currently happening. You are not mailed an emissions fine or speeding fine, or warranty voidance at home the minute your computer records the rule-breaking. Why? Because the legal system is not there yet. And of those 3 topics, which involves the most money and incentive?

1-EMISSIONS - Federal and state govt fines on companies and individuals. E.g. your engine is recorded on countless highways as breaking EPA regulations, even though in stock condition = corporate fine. Your engine breaking EPA regulations because of lack of maintenance or chipping it = individual fine

2-SPEEDING - State and local governments as well as Insurance industries use this to determine liability in wrongful death, accidents ... and govts use this to generate "fine" revenue

3-WARRANTY - Manufacturers up/down the sub-contractor chain use this to adjust price points. Only rarely is warranty denied. They leave you happy as an individual mostly ... and pass the cost to everyone else.

I listed those in order of financial worth. Most people here are focused on the WARRANTY issues. Who cares. This recording capability is ultimately about EMISSION and non-warranty LIABILITY (tort) issues with other drivers.

SOME TRUTHS WHICH EMERGE:

(a) The more people that chip their trucks ... the simple outcome is that trucks cost more. For every 1 in 10 driver who chips ... the other 9 pay for it in the long run.

(b) Chipping your truck will also only get you in hot water in the yet-to-be-determined future for emissions problems. California drivers will experience this first. Not all chipping necessarily will effect you here, but it could, if combined with alterations of emission control mechanisms and hardware

(c) Eventually ... if you run around chipped up 100 Horsepower and plow into someone ... I can GUARANTEE you that this will become a factor in a wrongful death suit, and you will pay dearly for this. The opposing lawyers and insurance companies (slow to understand the computer world) are honing in on this capability. And no matter how many fancy memory erasures you do, there are so many ways to demonstrate your enhancements, you can never get away from this. If nothing else, they will talk to your friends and neighbors ... "did Joe American chip his truck and regularly drive it at an extra 100HP?" They will make the argument that this was a factor in why you hit someone else. Your alibi is that you chipped ... but never "employed" the use of that extra power. Since we all know that 200HP is about the most you ever need lawfully on the highway ... how do you have this alibi? You say "I only ran a non-stock program when out with the Ford club in the salt flats off-road, otherwise, my truck always runs at stock". Then, they will roll the tape and see if this is true.

So sit back, relax, don't worry, but be aware of these things. Warrantied coverage of labor & parts due to chipping problems is simply a cost passed on to the other 90% of your fellow truckers via sales prices on new trucks, and increased labor-rates at the dealership.

Be careful hot-rodding your PSD in front of the Dodges and Chevies. Don't have an accident and don't hurt anyone. Saving it for the track or special get togethers is the best and most wise advice. Showing that you ONLY employ higher HP programs for special situations (the farm, towing) might save you in a legal case, but Ford would not be involved in that other than to give the authorities the data they want ... and those days are only just now approaching.

 

I commend you for an excellent post....

I think alot of people did misinterpret what I was saying- what I just described may not apply in the future- things can be changed, and YES, they can make it much harder for us later on...

The legal matters of this subject have yet to be seen...I don't know if we will see it in the immediate future, but I agree with you that it will surface sometime. I won't get into the political causes of this, but...there are certain groups of people you can thank for this

I do think it boils down to one thing- WE ultimately have control of FMC, of the government, and the law...if we let things get to the point you are describing, it is noone's fault but our own. We should not worry though, since the responsibility is still in our hands. Its not too late; my guns are still in my closet...and aren't afraid to come out

 

Appreciate everyone's input. I guess I just wanted to assure myself that no one had an agenda around here. (Because of secondary issues in the memory area). Implying one mod would be better than another. Driver responsibility is the bottom line it seems.


JB

 

Maxium, don't kill me I just typed what was said to me.. If you look at this board for example you will see posts asking if the '03 bugs are fixed or if it safe to buy an '05. Do you think these are just a few random people? I hear this all of the time. Heck, if someone sat and went through this board it might scare the bejesus out of them. What happens if people get so gun shy from the mess so far (and yes it is a mess no matter what anyone says) that they just quit buying Fords for a couple of years? I think that was the theme of his statement. I also think the definition of a mess is what is happening with Ford warranty,hotline,and the factory.

I am glad Ford listens to you and fixes problems since they sure as heck don't listen to me except to tell me that exaust in my cab is normal! So, since they listen to you would you be so kind as to tell them to please fix it? Since it seems you don't think it hurts Ford to buy it back why do they fight it so hard? In fact, send them over they can have mine and I will get another.