Sept 2024 All-topic thread
Jim
Oregon has a homeless problem , just like California, our lil town built a navigation center for the homeless to get started, but unfortunately most don’t want to be told ( you can’t come here drunk or high as a kite ) so only a hand full go through the process of sobriety and back on their feet , the rest are in tents strung out all over the place , Oregon also has a 200 ft law of no homeless encampments within any waterways, lakes streams or tributaries , but you see grocery cart dumped in them all the time , I was totally against the navigation center in Manteca being built , but after I’ve seen what this town has done with the homeless issue, I’m for it .
Jim
There are people who are in a cycle of poverty from not being able to earn enough to live on. A lot of jobs cannot pay rent. They have families with children. I can see how 1 paycheck does not cover all the expenses. I have 1 paycheck. And I am barely able to keep my head above water. I know that I could not afford to support a family with just one income.
When I was growing up, my parents both worked, worked overtime, and did side jobs. As a child, I remember weekends where I went with my Dad to help someone do a brake job, paint a fence, trim a tree, butcher game, unclog plumbing, install an appliance, etc. It was all friends and family, as my Dad wasn't a handyman with a shingle. Nonetheless, they always slipped him a couple of bucks, I got a couple of bucks also. My Mom would do similar tasks with hemming pants, or helping a friend or relative prepare a big meal.
Maybe there were bad decisions made and poor life choices. Nobody taught the poor to manage finances. Someone should have said, "don't have a bunch of kids that you can't pay for". It's not too late to educate the next generation. But there it is. We have poor families that cannot afford to eat, let alone pay rent. They will never own a home or pass down generational wealth. And we simply can't drag them into a warehouse with surplus jail mattresses. These are the people who are trying to stay in their car or maybe an RV.
Then there are the disabled who cannot work. A disability check or SSI does not pay rent. They have no place to go once they are evicted because they can't pay rent.
Subsidized housing lists are years long. What do you do for a few years before HUD is able to offer a living unit? A single guy like me may be able to find a roommate, or rent a single room in someone's ADU. Although with less income, I don't know if I would be able to do that. A little more complicated when you have a family. More difficult when you have a disability. Of course, I don't have a mounting pile of debt which continues to accrue interest. Different story for people who are maxed out on credit cards, falling behind in payments, etc.
Then there are the people who are abusing drugs and alcohol. They need rehab. You can't just give them a place to stay, so that they can have a living unit to get high in. I suppose you can. But I don't think it's a good idea. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. There are no living units to give out. It's not like there are homes that poor families don't want, then we just give the keys to the drunks.
Mental illness needs to be treated. And there is no effective way to treat people who do not want treatment. Treatment is voluntary. The mentally ill can walk away from any place, at any time. We can't forcibly incarcerate the mentally ill. You can't warehouse them. Or maybe you can. Just lock them all away and give them lobotomies. No politics here. It was what doctors did. The government funded it up to 1980. Actually, without mentioning names, an outgoing president signed off on a lot of money for keeping mentally ill people in institutions, and the next incoming president cut it. Now we have mentally ill people on the streets, and we can't lock them up.
But at the end of the day, there is not enough available housing. We have nowhere to send these people to. It's not like we have apartments available, and people are refusing. The simple solution, is housing. Land can be allocated. Housing can be built. Poor people could be employed on the labor crews for construction. Large landlords could be asked to provide subsidized units. Property owners could be offered incentives for providing units. And this is where "politics" comes in. Who pays for this? Where do you put all these people? I don't want to pay higher taxes. I don't want them on my block, decreasing my property value.
Where I live, in San Francisco, there are housing projects. Government real estate. People who live there pay 1/3 of their income. So if your SSI check is only $600, then you pay $200 in rent. This is a finite resource. People who live in government housing do not leave often. The demand is probably 3 to 5 people in line, for each unit. If you can imagine that there are 10,000 units, all occupied; there are 50,000 people waiting for someone to die so that they can move in. And as you can imagine, public housing in any major city, is just a den of crime. Gangs. Drugs. Robberies. Assaults. Homicides. It's far from safe, and often not liveable. Broken windows. Leaking pipes. No hot water. Holes in the roof. And the Housing Authority has no money to provide maintenance and repairs.
Jim
As some may have heard, although it's just a rumor, The Lord Helps Those Who Help Themselves. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish, yada yada yada.
What we have is cyclical poverty. As wealth is generationally passed down, so is poverty. We have third and fourth generation single mothers, who only know how to survive on subsidies. We have the very poorest of the poor, with minimal skills, at the lowest wage jobs. How do we teach that man to fish, and help himself? Any idiot can see that if you can't afford 6 kids, you don't have 6 kids. Or maybe not. Maybe that's why we have so many people who can't afford to have kids, having kids. Why do we have so many people who can't afford luxuries in life, buying consumer goods on credit, and living in a deficit?
Where are we failing as a society, that everyone wants to eat free fish without catching the fish?
Our school systems no longer offer trade skills. Shop classes have been canceled. As if every child will be able to get into a college, and be able to pay for the education. Not to mention, successfully complete a college curriculum for a degree. The disillusion that every child is created equal, and that they can all succeed. Not in high school, not in college, is there a class on financial literacy. Nobody is being taught to balance a budget, balance a checkbook, or anything about investments. You're just expected to fail on your own. You would think that in the home, someone is parenting, and that includes family planning - like saying, "you're too young to have kids". But I could be completely wrong. Someone with different values is teaching their children to have children. Where my Dad might have said, "save your money, buy a house" - some other Dad might say, "have some kids, get some welfare and food stamps, and get public housing".
Assuming that we "find" the money to build housing - then what? Are we going to break the cycle of poverty? Are we going to help the poor with job training, financial consulting, credit repair, and becoming a productive part of society? Will there be a plan to move them on in life, with a path towards success? Or do we just give him an apartment, like giving him a fish to feed him for a day?
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have a great week fellers
When The Gavinator was a lowly member of The SF Board of Supervisors, he took away welfare. Nobody got free money. If they wanted public assistance, they had to work for it. The applicants were handed a broom, and then transported to different neighborhoods where they were supervised.
He was attacked by both sides. Not popular because he did what nobody was doing.
Most recently, The Gavinator has been clearing out encampments himself. Not by himself . He had a team, of course. Literally kicking homeless out and dumping their belongings. Again, attacked by both Democrats and Republicans. He did what nobody was doing. You didn't see The Mayor of Los Angeles out there, walking into a homeless camp, telling them to leave, then tearing up the tents.
The Gav has also ordered certain communities to provide affordable housing. Not popular. Both sides attacked him again. No communities of wealth want to open up to the poor, and pay for it.
Right or wrong. Good or bad. I don't know. But it's action. Maybe it could work. Maybe it will fail. But something has to be done. Instead, we have a lot of talk. Political leadership on the right and left have done nothing but talk.
In my own backyard, it has gone sideways. Politicians have allowed developers to build large scale projects with a small allotment for below market rate tenancy. Sounds good. Until you see the real numbers. A market rate unit is $4,000 a month. Let's assume that you get 10% off market rate rent. Below market rate tenants are people making less than $120,000 a year, who still have to pass a credit check and post their first and last months rents, and 1 months security deposit. So if you get a unit, with a discount, you still need $10,000 to move in. The family with 5 kids in an RV won't qualify.
The sideways theory is that once the nice new units are built, people moving in will vacate an older unit, which a poor person could move into. It's not working. There's a vacated unit. But no guarantee that it's going to be affordable to anyone who doesn't have money.
"God helps those who help themselves" is NOT in the Bible. "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day, but teach the man to fish and he eats the rest of his life" Is in the Bible. I agree with everything you have said. The problem is not a simple one to fix. For the very reasons you have already given. It is also way to easy for people to say we need this, this or this, but then do nothing to accomplish that. I am by any means a fan of the Gavinator, however, he was a man of action and not just talk. Did he fix the problem? No, of course not. It takes more than one person to fix this problem. This problem has been around for a long time. It will not be fixed in one day, week, year or even decade unless we can change people's minds and hearts and actually be willing to help fix the problem.
Jim













