There is more than one way to look at this situation. Because our society has turned into a bunch of spineless wimps, the usual response is "You should run away because, even though some jerk assaulted you (or your vehicle, house, etc.), you have no right to protect your property." Or something along the lines of "It's just a truck, it isn't worth XXX."

Screw that. Why is it always the duty of the law-abiding person to retreat or suffer financial loss? It's well past the time to make criminals retreat. That's a big part of the reason states have enacted Constitutional Carry laws. It isn't up to the police to protect you, your family and your property. It's up to YOU.

FACT - you can't "brake check" someone who is following at a safe distance. Even if the OP did brake check that jerk, it gives him zero right to assault the OP or his truck. Right from the beginning this jerk is the aggressor. When that jerk chose to strike the truck, he was the aggressor for the 2nd time. OP rightfully followed the jerk because the OP should not have to "suck it up" just because so many people in this country are afraid to hold jerks like that accountable for their actions. By the way - when the jerk dismounted his bike and walked back to the truck, threatening and screaming at the OP - he was the aggressor - FOR THE 3RD TIME. Stop defending or making excuses for his actions. He could have easily outrun the truck and separated himself from the OP, yet he stopped. Why? Because he wanted the confrontation. Why? Because he is used to intimidating people and getting away with it. The reason that jerk behaves like he does is because he has been empowered by all the spineless people who let him get away with his behavior.

Remember the three career criminals who assaulted Kyle Rittenhouse, assuming he was just going to lay down and be yet another one of their victims? Funny enough, Kyle ran from all three of them, trying to avoid confrontation. All three of them pursued him. All three had / have been getting away with a lifetime of crime because nobody had ever put them in their place - until they assaulted the wrong person. Good riddance of two of them - too bad he only winged Grosskreutz. As Steve Inman would say - FAFO.

Personally, I would have rolled down the window, exchanged words with him and demanded $$ for the mirror. If he physically assaulted my truck again he would learn why bear spray is so effective. If that wasn't enough to deter him, or his buddy decided to engage, things would have gotten more serious. Lethal force is never the best first response - if you have the luxury of time and distance. I always carry but I also understand that if I draw my weapon I'm going to kill whomever is assaulting me, so drawing it is a last resort for me personally. I don't wish to kill anyone - but I refuse to be a victim, especially to jerks like the one described here.

OP - I'm glad you are OK. As others have pointed out - there are no federal laws to prevent you from carrying. State laws are well described on concealedcarry.com, usconcealedcarry.com, usacarry.com, etc. Exercise your Constitutional right to protect yourself, your family and your property from criminals. Get a canister of Frontiersman Bear Spray for less-than-lethal protection. He would have been rolling on the ground like the sissy he is and you could have taken his keys and went on your merry way.

 

Did you thank him for his service?

 

The guy on the bike is/was a jack*** who's luck will (probably tragically) run out someday if he keeps up that type of behavior, so get over that part and quit defending his actions. All this assumes of course the OP is being truthful about not actually brake checking them and provoking the situation, but that still wouldn't excuse anything and whatever "partner 2" does at that point would be irrelevant when somebody just snapped and ran you off the road in their 8,000 lb pickup after you threw a temper tantrum and aggressively damaged their property. He would have been roadkill at that speed. I live around that area and know exactly where this happened. There are a lot of morons on the road around here on 2 and 4 wheels

 

Their behavior shouldn't be gotten away with. He should take whatever actions he can to get biker guy penalized through the legal system. IMO he got what he needed by following them and getting the plate number. Biker guys knows he blew it and now he's nervously waiting for the other shoe to drop. The unfortunate part is that he'll have to contact the authorities in Cass County and convince them to do anything on it. If nothing else he scared the crap out of them by running them down and confronting them. When somebody's after you like that you KNOW they ain't happy and you NEVER know who you're dealing with. That's why he started screaming and boo-hooing about being brake checked, trying to play the victim when he knows they were the ones being clowns and provoking the whole thing. They'll think twice about doing that again even if no criminal penalties happen.

 

You are a bit out of touch with society today.

 

Note that anyone that follows this advice has a reasonable chance of things not working out very well on the side of the road and an excellent chance of things working out very badly in a courtroom.

Odd that Kyle Rittenhouse's case was mentioned. How would his self-defense claim have worked if instead of attempting to retreat from attacks that came from nowhere, he had instead chased the individuals down and demanded money for minor damage to a vehicle? Some states have a duty to retreat. Others allow for "stand your ground". I'm not aware of any that have a "refuse to be a victim of property damage" law that allows you to chase somebody across county lines to recover damages for property and apply deadly force if things get ugly.

(LEO for 14 years and have seen situations like these play out many times)

 

What if, what if, what if ????

You might call replacing a $1,000+ mirror "trivial" but I certainly don't.

Again - he followed them. Is that illegal?

Again - if you see me following you and you stop, get off your bike and attack me - who is the aggressor?

Stand your ground has absolutely nothing to do with this situation - UNLESS biker boy had gotten off his bike and attacked the OP. Then the OP would be the person who might invoke SYG - not the other way around.

Why is it odd - Kyle's case worked like it did because he was in the right. IMHO so was the OP, with the info I have anyway.

 

$1000 in theft or property damage can be a felony. Some states $500 in theft or damage is a felony. If a state has a duty to retreat law that is meaningless. You have a right to self defense in all 50 states and you absolutely understand no circumstances would have to run away from an attacker. If someone damages your property and you pursue to get their info or try to recoup your loss from their destruction there is nothing illegal about that. If some ******* gets off his bike in an aggressive manner I would be half a second from pulling my gun THE ENTIRE interaction until he is gone. Strike 1 you broke my mirror. Strike 2 you get off your bike and come at me aggressively when you cause property damage to MY property. Strike 3 would be any action that could be construed by myself as an action that could cause grievous bodily harm. If someone is going to punch you in the face do you know they are only going to hit you once and be done? You don't know that they won't try to pull you out of the vehicle and cave your face in. Let the victims continue to be victimized but crime statistics in states with constitutional carry seem to favor the prepared over the victim. They can go ahead and wait for law enforcement to show up and save them.

I dont ask mortal man for permission to exercise my god given rights. Some of these "LEOs" need to brush up on their constitutional law because they don't change based on what state you're standing in.

 

About 10 years ago my wife was a juror on a Florida shooting trial. The facts as she explained are below. She held and still does hold a Florida CCW permit and practices often. She was the only juror with a carry permit.

The case was sort of similar to the OPs situation. 2 guys, including the accused tracked down a guy that owed money to defendant #1. Defendant #2 stayed in the car while D#1 approached the victim. There was an altercation where the victim instigated a fight with D#1. D#2 who was legally carrying a Glock got out of the car and joined the anltercation and shot and killed the victim. The jury found him guilty of shooting the victim. The logic for the guilty verdict was the defendants had initially provoked the violence by seeking out the victim and didn’t exhaust every reasonable means to withdraw from physical contact when the victim attacked D1.

Even though Florida is a Stand Your Ground State it didn’t meet the Self Defense requirement since it was found that the defendants initially provoked the violence.

Durring jury selection each potential juror was asked if they owned a firearm and had a CCW permit. My wife was the only one who acknowledged she has a permit and carries. The defendant attorney asked the jury pool if anyone would have an issue using deadly force in a self defense senecio, other than Mrs R, my wife.

Florida also has a law where if convicted of a crime with a firearm is a mandatory 3 year 10 year or 20 year sentence. So if accused and charged it can become very expensive to defend even if you are in the clear. https://www.husseinandwebber.com/cas...h%20or%20great

 

[QUOTE=Flyct;21230044]
The case was sort of similar to the OPs situation. 2 guys, including the accused tracked down a guy that owed money to defendant #1. Defendant #2 stayed in the car while D#1 approached the victim. There was an altercation where the victim instigated a fight with D#1. D#2 who was legally carrying a Glock got out of the car and joined the anltercation and shot and killed the victim. The jury found him guilty of shooting the victim. The logic for the guilty verdict was the defendants had initially provoked the violence by seeking out the victim and didn’t exhaust every reasonable means to withdraw from physical contact when the victim attacked D1.

Even though Florida is a Stand Your Ground State it didn’t meet the Self Defense requirement since it was found that the defendants initially provoked the violence./QUOTE]
Sounds like a ****ty defense attorney if the facts are as you presented them. I dont quite get what your wife holding a CCW had anything to do with that story.

 

[QUOTE=OBS460;21230058]wonder if brake checking an a@@hole tailgating you with bright led’s is provoking?

 

[QUOTE=zeroo;21230200]Don't know. The OP said he didn't brake check and a dead man can't testify.

 

On a side note I heard last week that ohio Supreme Court just ruled that warning shots are a reasonable attempt at self defense.

 

[QUOTE=OBS460;21230204]yup, that’s what he said it seems.

 

So before this gets shut down and locked I would like to hear from some bike riders.

1 How do you think his arm and shoulder is feeling about now?

2 How much skill or was it luck that he maintained control of his bike when hitting the mirror?

3 Was it possible he may have hit the mirror with a helmet and therefore control of the handlebars was
not compromised as much?

4 Is it possible he had a blunt instrument and used that instead?

I do not ride and it would seem to me that to intentionally smack a mirror like this would cause your other arm and shoulder to jerk the steering and loose control?