Going to be awesome, when it turns out to be a bad suspension joint and road harmonics combining........

 

I have a set of Centramatic’s in my garage I took off my 2020 F450 when I sold the truck. Anyone interested I’m in the DFW area of Texas

 

The results are only as good as the method used to obtain the results. If the method is not reliable, then neither will the results.

You've already been down that road...

I think so. But that will be very difficult to do, as the person answering the phone at most shops will most likely have no idea what you are talking about, since it is a very uncommon question, and since they are trained to answer tire questions, not questions about what exact shop equipment accessories they use.

A truck tire shop that has the following Haweka adapter plates for mounting F-450 tire and wheel assemblies on spin balancers that are equal to or better than the Hunter 9700 Road Force Balancer (a 30 year old machine, so it has likely been superseded by a series of newer model numbers... yet the key function to look for in any subsequent model machine is "road force measurement") will be more likely to mount the center the steel wheels on the balancing machine consistently concentrically, which is the recipe for a more reliable result.

Haweka HW280 400 139 Pro Max MD kit for Medium Duty Vehicles includes:
- HW700 400 033 MD Flange Plate Adapter (configured in the 10x225 stud arrangement) AND the
- HW160 400 048 Hub Pilot Disc #2, for 170.1 mm Hub Bores.

The common use of a "centering cone" to chuck the tire and wheel assembly up to a spin balancing machine is NOT reliable for heavy offset dual rear tire and wheel assemblies. What ends up getting "balanced" is the individual, idiosyncratic, and not possible to repeat happenstance of how that tire and wheel assembly was finally positioned when the cone was cinched. Once that "balanced" tire and wheel assembly is removed entirely from the machine, and then lifted back up again and re-chucked with the same centering cone back to the same machine, in the same clocked position no less, the tire and wheel assembly will not be "balanced", because the cone cinch cannot be reliably repeated with such a large pilot hole on such a heavy tire and wheel assembly having such a deep offset.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Would love it to be a quick simple fix like that. But it has been checked fully for front suspension component issues and current Ford dealer says they are re-checking... and I okay'd an alignment I know it does not need as well, just in case. Also, they are checking steering linkage/gearbox, driveshaft, and motor mounts.

I've had previous shakes before on other vehicles tracked to driveshafts, broken flywheel, harmonic balancer, even a cracked engine cooling fan blade.

I'm open to the possibility it could be anything and am investigating accordingly, but the tires are by far the most likely issue. This is a well-maintained appropriately used low-mileage truck that went in to the tire shop absolutely smooth and came out 3 hours later with a bad shake. The problem could be anything, but the odds it's a tire balance issue are way above anything else.

Y2K's great information and advice about stem orientation and proper equipment likely not being used thus far to balance the tires is additionally compelling. Whatever it is, I just want it fixed.

 

The common use of a "centering cone" to chuck the tire and wheel assembly up to a spin balancing machine is NOT reliable for heavy offset dual rear tire and wheel assemblies. What ends up getting "balanced" is the individual, idiosyncratic, and not possible to repeat happenstance of how that tire and wheel assembly was finally positioned when the cone was cinched. Once that "balanced" tire and wheel assembly is removed entirely from the machine, and then lifted back up again and re-chucked with the same centering cone back to the same machine, in the same clocked position no less, the tire and wheel assembly will not be "balanced", because the cone cinch cannot be reliably repeated with such a large pilot hole on such a heavy tire and wheel assembly having such a deep offset.[/QUOTE]

In my discussion, the tech was familiar with challenges to get 19.5's to balance and said they have the right equipment (but he did not know what it was). He claimed other dealers and a few tire shops send trucks with 19.5's to them. I'm hopeful for their results, but not overly optimistic.

Willing to try Centramatics, but I've read many comments from users reporting less than stellar results.

 

@Keokie

My original XDS2 tires, Made In France in 2011 at Michelin's global headquarters, had the painted dots.

My new Agilis HD Grip D tires, Made in USA in January of 2026, do not have any painted dots, neither red nor yellow, same as what you reported with your new Agilis HD Grip D tires.

Tire manufacturing costs can most certainly be reduced by cutting corners and skipping the steps and production processes of mounting each tire to a perfectly round, centered, machined, lipless fixture rim, inflating the tire, and spinning the tire in both directions with instrumented rollers applying a calibrated load. It is disappointing to discover that the elimination of these measures appears to be the route that Michelin has taken with these tires as produced in the USA plant.

If you have purchased your Agilis HD Grip D tires less than 60 days ago, and you are unable to obtain a satisfactory ride from them, Michelin will pay for replacement tires of equal or lessor value.

Here is the set of Agilis HD Grip D tires that I picked up last night.

 

Thanks Y2KW57. My tires are more than 6 months old now. They have about 5K miles on them. I left for a 3K mile miserable road trip right after they were installed, but have not driven the truck much since then. I do have another summer of significant driving and towing with this vehicle ahead of me.

I have communicated closely and clearly from day one with this retailer, some of which is noted earlier in the thread. The GM has been reasonable and willing to work with me, which I appreciate. But as of yet, the solution has not been achieved.

From the beginning, I have felt like this is a balancing issue. I have seen tires that will not balance on the machine, therefore were determined defective. That does not seem to be the case here. They will balance out on the machine. I am now of the opinion(very significantly influenced by what Y2K has posted) that this is a process/equipment issue as opposed to a tire issue.

This retailer offered to swap out the tires, but would have to go back to balancing them with balance beads. That was absolutely horrible. The truck shook at every speed above about 45mph. And was horrendous above 65mph.

So, now for the update: I got the truck back from the Ford dealer that said they had the right equipment. I was informed the alignment was correct and they could find no issues with steering/suspension, etc. I was informed "both steel inners were well out of balance, we are very confident that was the problem". Surprise, surprise. I learned a couple other things. They said the other four showed as balanced. They also dismounted and re-mounted and balanced all six. They found there were still balance beads in the inner duals.

I have only driven it for about 15 minutes on the freeway. Unfortunately the truck still shakes. It shakes less and the speed range is narrower (about 72-80). So far, this is the best it has been. Before I left or drove the vehicle, I did ask if their balancer used a cone. Getting an answer on their equipment has been elusive. They were not sure and said it was done offsite at their fleet service center.

So, I am quite confident these were still balanced on a cone, and still falling prey to what Y2K contends. My guess for the better performance is probably the luck of the tech getting a "closer to true" mount on the machine with the steel rims. For some reason, the cone seems to work with the aluminum rims.

At this point, I guess I need to find a shop that has the right equipment. I think that will be very challenging for the reasons Y2K listed above. I suppose I could try centramatics to see if they would smooth out the remaining out of balance issue. Given that the balance beads failed to do so, I have limited confidence.

This whole issue has had me consider the 20" wheel conversion. Options there have improved, but there are still obstacles I don't like. AND, I have seen where some of the 20 inch guys have had balance issues as well, particularly the ones running steel inners to properly seat both rims on the hub and reduce "poke". I'm going to guess the balance problem they are having is exactly the same one I am having.

So, Y2kW57, please keep me informed of how your mounting and balancing goes. And if it goes well, Id be very curious to know who did it.

 

@Keokie

Thank you for your detailed report.

As I earlier implied, I had suspected that there might be some balancing beads remaining in the tires.

As you surmised, your vibration hopping was in the rear, and for that I have a couple of suggestions.

As the GM of the tire dealer you went to admitted, they did not have the equipment to balance the STEEL wheels.

I don't have any aluminum wheels. All the wheels, on all the trucks I deal with, are steel. Steel wheels are in my wheel houses.

Obviously, the aluminum wheels are a lot thicker than steel wheels, and some aluminum wheels have a slight chamfer around the hub pilot hole.

The combination of wheel disc thickness and pilot hole edge chamfer can greatly assist a cone chuck in centering the tire wheel assembly on the balancing machine.

Steel wheels are thinner, with little to no chamfer, and can get caught cockeyed by the cone seating, especially with so much weight cantilevered by virtue of the dually outset.

Adding some ballast weight in the back of your pickup will probably help tame what you are experiencing.

Don't underestimate the amplification effect of the unsprung weight of the dual rear axle. I last drove my personal F-550 with only the two inside rear duals on the back, to go pickup those tires I showed you earlier. I'm in the process of refinishing a couple of dozen 19.5" steel wheels, so I was running only 2 tires in back, so that I could add the other two wheels to my wheel refinishing prep pile.

It is a significantly smoother ride driving around on an axle that has 220 lbs less unsprung weight bouncing up and dropping down. Obviously, removing two tires and wheels from the rear axle would undermine the carrying capacity that you bought the F-450 for, but one thing that you can do is add more sprung weight inside the back of the pickup, as a damper to the reactions of the unsprung weight of the rear axle. More weight in the rear of the pickup also makes the springs more compliant.

I've been using Centramatic Balancers for 20 years, and recommend them. The only downside I've experienced is that my tires last so long with them, I end up running the tires far beyond the service life. Notice that I am replacing 2011 Michelin XDS2 tires in 2026. That's 15 years, 45,000 miles, with a tread deck that is flat across on the drive axle, and if I recall correctly, there is still 12/32nds of tread remaining. And that is with me mounting the tires myself, with only a couple of tire iron spoons on a piece of scrap carpet in my driveway. No balancing machine, no centering cone, no wheel weights, no tire shop. I just match mounted the tires to the wheels, sandwiched in a set of Centramatics, and called it good. So if you're curious to know who did it, that would, and will still, be me.

Now, if I end up having any of the issues that you report, I will most likely be forced to do as I suggested you do... which is to look for truck tire shops that have the Haweka adapter for their balancing machines. In my general area, I located a tire shop that services the largest utility company on the west coast, that owns and manages a fleet of F-550 bucket trucks that number in the thousands. I still would have to drive a couple of hours in traffic to get there, but would do so if the Centramatics are not able to compensate for any imbalance. Thus far, I have not had an issue (in 20 years).

It will be another month or so before I mount these Agilis HD Grip D tires. I need to get the steel wheels refinished, and am also considering upgrading wheel studs and swiveling flange nuts. Will likely pull the rear axles, calipers, and rotors to service the drum in hat parking brake shoes. An endless and growing mission creep list of things to attend to. You'll be on your next 3,000 mile journey by then.

 

245 size XDS2s on my 2017 for a little over a year, no weights, no beads, no special line-up with dots on the tires/wheels, only running Centramatics. Has been running smooth since mounted. Truck ran smooth with the previous HD3 Conti tires and regular clip-on wheel weights too. Hope you get it sorted out!

My dad has a 2008 F-450 pickup that has always vibrated running empty above 65mph. Even with different tires (he just throws beads in his). Put 500lb on the bed and it completely goes away. I've always suspected it has an out-of-round steel wheel on the back or not perfectly balanced driveshaft (4.88 gears makes for more driveshaft RPM). Have half a mind to jack up his truck and mine and throw my Centramatics on his and take it for a drive to see if it makes it any better.

 

I had the same issue on my 2022 F350 Dually, and back when I got it new, I remember a lot of owners complaining about it on here. Get your tires Road Force Balanced at a commercial truck tire place, and Add Centrimatics. Those two actions cured my issue. I remember one owner saying that their drive shaft needed to be balanced to fix their vibration. I do not know any shops locally that can balance a drive shaft so I never did that, but that was my next step if these two options did not work.