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No, but a specific welding procedure would need to be followed for ANY welding on those axle tubes.
The crack by perch is because the axle is not rated for the actual weight this size truck can haul.
A crack towards the end of the spindle would mean the entire tube has been flexing, work hardening the area to some extent. So if proper welding procedures were follwed the rest of the tube could be compromised as well if enough flexing has occured.
Do S110s run the same wheel bearings? You can also throw a S135 3rd in it right? I’m reading it’s a 8mm mild steel housing (like a 60 or 44) maybe grab one of those and do a truss and plate system?
The S110 has an 11.8" ring gear. The S135 has a 14.25" ring gear. So no, there is no just throwing an S135 3rd member into an S110 housing.
The S110 housing is also shallower, ovalized if you will, to increase ground clearance. It is a lighter duty axle internally.
Would an S110 3rd fit in a S135 housing? A guy claimed he did that so I was wondering if it could be done the other way around That is why i got the idea
if so 15,500 is really 14,500 probably. Between 4 tires, 4 heavy steel wheels, and an axle housing I probably drop 1k lbs off and have 14,500 actually sitting on the axle tubes. Not that it matters as I’m still over but was curious on that
I don’t think unsprung weight (axles, wheels, tires) counts against ‘axle weight rating’. IIRC, the steel 19.5 wheel/tire is 130-150lbs.
My 4wd crew cab F350 (cab chassis) with 9ft flatbed mostly unloaded puts about 5000 lbs on the rear tires and about 4500lbs on the front. GVWR is 12,500lbs. Just for comparison.
There is over 600gals of vegetable oil and an F550 front axle on the bed here.
if so 15,500 is really 14,500 probably. Between 4 tires, 4 heavy steel wheels, and an axle housing I probably drop 1k lbs off and have 14,500 actually sitting on the axle tubes. Not that it matters as I’m still over but was curious on that
That's a good question and I'm not entirely sure. When a Cat scale or DOT weighs the axles it is measuring the pressure the tires are putting on the ground, so obviously that includes the unsprung weight of the axle housing, wheels, tires, etc, but I've never seen it specified or clarified on a GAWR whether or not the weight of the axle itself has to be included. Ie; "this is how much pressure you're allowed to put on the ground with this axle" or/vs. " this is how much pressure you can put on the suspension of the axle".
Would an S110 3rd fit in a S135 housing? A guy claimed he did that so I was wondering if it could be done the other way around That is why i got the idea
No, it won't fit, but what would you gain putting a smaller third member into a larger housing that is suspected of being cracked?
Did the guy claim to mount an S110 into an S130? That would be a different story. The S130 is part of an entirely different axle family than the S135. The S130 has a 12.2" ring gear, compared to the 14.25" ring gear of the S135.
The S135 / S150 axle group was an existing medium duty Class 5/6 axle (in the mid 1990's) that Ford adopted for the F-550, F-53, F-59, F-650 LoPro.
The S110 /S111 / S130 axle group was developed from ground up specifically for the Class 4/5 market that Ford was expanding with the F-450 / F-550 / Low Cab Forward.
The first axle in this newer, smaller, lighter, "denser", light medium duty axle series was the S110, which was fitted to F-450s in lieu of the Dana 80 on a trial basis. At that time, the F-550's were still fitted with the older, larger Dana S135.
After not quite a year, the Dana S110 was deemed good enough to be fitted to the F-550, so the F-450 was downgraded back to Dana 80, and the S110 became available in the F-550, while the larger S135 was discontinued.
The S110 wasn't quite the axle that the S135 was, so two more variants of the S110 were released... the S111 and the S130. Subsequent 19,500 GVWR F-550s were fitted with the S130, which has a 14,706 GAWR.
Dana medium duty axles have horsepower rating limitations, and when Ford upgraded the 2015 6.7L Powerstroke (2nd Generation) in the 2015 F-450 pickup, Ford also fitted the S130 to that pickup, even though the axle was derated in that application.
Previously, the 2008-2020 F-450 pickup had the S110 axle. Certain F-450s had the S111 axle.
The S110/111/130 are part of the same family.
The S135/150 are not in that family. They are of a different generation.
The current axle family that Ford is using in the F-450/550 is the newest Dana M300 family.
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GAWR's include the weight of the axle itself. Whatever is measured on a scale.
Can you imagine if the operator or consumer or DOT officer had to know what the weight of the axle, wheels, tires, brake hardware, or fluid in the axle is, and do all that math on the side of the road?
Dana is a reliable and readily available source for information on Dana axles, without having to resort to the risk of misinformation inherent with reader editable sites like Wikipedia.
What the shop manual doesn’t tell you is how you’re supposed to get the axle up at that steep of an angle with it in the truck. Shop lift I guess? Steep driveway? I doubt they do that on large truck tractors when a leaking hub seal gets replaced.
The image I posted (of tilting the axle) actually was for large semis, where Dana recommends using axle lubricant on the bearings, and not packing with grease (as Ford recommends) for the initial lubrication of wheel bearings until the axle lubricant is circulated.
I post shop manual images when I can, to offer a measure of credibility that my words can't.
However, I also speak from experience. I've had the Dana S135 in my personal pickup for the last 21 years. When I dropped the factory fill to relieve any break in particles from circulation, and refilled with synthetic, I was able to tilt the axle from side to side, full drop on one side, while lifting the other, and visa versa, while working alone. With the frame supported on jackstands, and a floor jack under each axle end, it really is not a big deal to do, and it is a practice that the axle manufacturer strongly recommends.
Here’s a silly question: how exactly would you rebuild a rear end like that that doesn’t have a bolt-on cover?
The entire third member, which is a sturdy casting that carries the ring, pinion, carrier, and differential assembly, is bolted into the banjo housing.
All large Class 8 semi's use axles with drop in third members and welded covers.
Here is a used S135 housing, with the 3rd member eviscerated...
No, it won't fit, but what would you gain putting a smaller third member into a larger housing that is suspected of being cracked?
Did the guy claim to mount an S110 into an S130? That would be a different story. The S130 is part of an entirely different axle family than the S135. The S130 has a 12.2" ring gear, compared to the 14.25" ring gear of the S135.
The S135 / S150 axle group was an existing medium duty Class 5/6 axle (in the mid 1990's) that Ford adopted for the F-550, F-53, F-59, F-650 LoPro.
The S110 /S111 / S130 axle group was developed from ground up specifically for the Class 4/5 market that Ford was expanding with the F-450 / F-550 / Low Cab Forward.
The first axle in this newer, smaller, lighter, "denser", light medium duty axle series was the S110, which was fitted to F-450s in lieu of the Dana 80 on a trial basis. At that time, the F-550's were still fitted with the older, larger Dana S135.
After not quite a year, the Dana S110 was deemed good enough to be fitted to the F-550, so the F-450 was downgraded back to Dana 80, and the S110 became available in the F-550, while the larger S135 was discontinued.
The S110 wasn't quite the axle that the S135 was, so two more variants of the S110 were released... the S111 and the S130. Subsequent 19,500 GVWR F-550s were fitted with the S130, which has a 14,706 GAWR.
Dana medium duty axles have horsepower rating limitations, and when Ford upgraded the 2015 6.7L Powerstroke (2nd Generation) in the 2015 F-450 pickup, Ford also fitted the S130 to that pickup, even though the axle was derated in that application.
Previously, the 2008-2020 F-450 pickup had the S110 axle. Certain F-450s had the S111 axle.
The S110/111/130 are part of the same family.
The S135/150 are not in that family. They are of a different generation.
The current axle family that Ford is using in the F-450/550 is the newest Dana M300 family.
__________________________
GAWR's include the weight of the axle itself. Whatever is measured on a scale.
Can you imagine if the operator or consumer or DOT officer had to know what the weight of the axle, wheels, tires, brake hardware, or fluid in the axle is, and do all that math on the side of the road?
That would make my head spin.
No gain, with the guy claiming he put a S110 3rd in a S135 housing made me wonder if I can grab an S110 housing (since it is mild steel) and I can truss it, and plate it and stregthen the housing and drop my S135 3rd and shafts in it...maybe he misspoke and he has an S130.
my next question is what is my next option? I first need to find out and confirm the cracks.
After that, any welding on an S150 housing will weaken it so I cant grab one and be cutting off/rewelding mounts on it.
S110 is smaller but would bolt in and I could strengthen the housing since it is mild steel from my reasearch but I am then running smaller shafts and a smaller 3rd.
I could find a bigger rear end but I would probably need to make sure it is mild steel and has a provision for the tone ring and speed sensor.
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