I went through this goat rope when I replaced the timing set in my Y-Block. They didn't have smog considerations in 1964, at least not anything like 1974. Now replacing a timing set is a fair amount of work. Not replacing the timing set itself as such, just all the other BS that goes along with it. I figured if I'm going through the trouble it better be right when I'm done.

The problem generally is whenever replacing a timing set, simply lining up the dots correctly by the manual etc., does not mean the camshaft will actually end up where it needs to be. It "should", but that isn't much consolation if it isn't discovered till everything is all buttoned back up. In my situation, I'm not building a race engine either and feel like buying a degree wheel and the rest of it. Engine tolerances of different parts together can sort of cancel each other out, but, sometimes they stack up in the wrong direction. In the case of "Is this a smog timing set or not?" I wouldn't trust 'em, unless (maybe)it was NOS. I'd still want to check.

There is a "field expedient" method, that is pretty simple to do, by rolling the engine over by hand till the #1 piston cylinder intake and exhaust valves are exactly at overlap, and then observing where the timing pointer falls in relation to the "0" or TDC mark on the balancer.

This expedient shows where the camshaft really is located, retarded, straight up, or advanced, regardless of what the dots indicate.

I used a bent coat hanger and an old disposable aluminum pie plate, and it worked fine for my purposes.

The old worn out timing set in my Y was maybe 5° retarded or more, and I installed the new set 4° advanced. This swung everything back up to factory specs in terms of compression ratio and engine manifold vacuum. Even a new chain will stretch right away, so a little bit of camshaft advance ensures it will end up where it should be.

All we're looking for though is confirmation that the actual camshaft timing events are not "late" or retarded. There aren't too many situations where this is ever desirable in any way. Drag racers might want this, because it increases the ultimate top speed, but it comes at the expense of the low end grunt. It's sort of similar in a way to factory ignition timing, most people prefer a good bit more advance than the factory specs.

 

No, I did align on TDC using the #1 as you suggested, also looked at where the dist is hitting at #1. So I'm either doing something wrong, or the PO corrected the -4 which i doubt. It is the original timing setup.

I'll redo the setup on #1 tomorrow and see if I did something wrong. It shouldn't be aligned straight up on the timing set if it is -4 retarded, correct?

 

Go on E-bay and buy this manual. This is the last year manual that has all the engines and specifications for the camshafts in it. I know I looked in every manual I have from 70 to 79 for cam timing events. This is a car manual the truck manuals only have engines that were installed in trucks. It is dirt cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Ford-C...QAAOSwp7de8qa-
A straight up 400 cam closes the intake at 59 degrees after bottom dead center.
Here is a picture of a 351C that I freshened up awhile back with a custom ground cam. All that equipment is necessary to degree a cam correctly and know the numbers you are getting are accurate. Doing all that on an engine with poly angle valves with the heads on it is not an easy task. So forget the degree wheel stuff. Buy the book make it your bedside reader for a few days, put in the new timing set and have fun driving it.

 

So all this run around and I found on another link, my 400m doesn't even have the -4 retard. No wonder it was lining up... lesson learned. lol

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ing-chain.html

 

Boy, I'd still want to check it, regardless. Only takes a couple minutes.

 

All 351m and 400 engines had retarded timing starting in the 70s.

 

They didn't retard on the 400's that were put in trucks starting in '77. Mine isn't retarded and its the original equipment.

 

Yep, I checked. It's set at 0.

 

My 77 was retarded.. However this from Bubba's site.Retarded camshaft timing was introduced in M-block 400s (and most other Ford engines) in the 1973 model year. Advertised power for the 400 dropped only 1hp (from 172 to 171) when retarded cam camshaft timing was introduced.

When M-blocks were introduced in trucks in the 1977 model year, the truck engines went back to the original, non-retarded camshaft timing. So if your M-block is from a '77-up truck with the OEM timing set, it doesn't have the retarded camshaft timing.

If your engine does have an OEM retarded camshaft timing set, you may gain some power at low rpm by switching to a non-retarded camshaft timing set, but the improvement is unlikely to be dramatic.


I've read elsewhere that only vehicles in excess of 7.000 pounds had straight up timing.

 

I think what it sounds like you're saying here, is that the dots are lined up or whatever.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean anything (other than that it "should" be correct). But, it might not be. It only takes a few minutes to verify the camshaft is actually phased where it needs to be without regard to any dots or marks, adjustable keyways, links etc., and it doesn't even require a degree wheel. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the distributor rotor or ignition timing. Maybe you know this stuff already, but it doesn't sound like it.

 

Let me ask you this, if it was running good prior to removing everything and the disti is hitting #1 at TDC wouldn't that point to it's not retarded?

Also, what check are you talking about here? "It only takes a few minutes to verify the camshaft is actually phased where it needs to be without regard to any dots or marks, adjustable keyways, links etc., and it doesn't even require a degree wheel"