400 timing chain
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,662
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From: southwest missouri
400 timing chain
I have read in Ford Muscle that ford retarded the timing in the 400's and other motors in the early 80's for fuel mileage. I have asked other engine builders about that and have not got much out of them. I am in the process of pulling my 400 to put a new IFS in and I have to change the pan so when I heard about this timing chain stuff I figured that I should change that also. I am not much of an engine man but could you not just move the chain back up to top and then set the timing. With all that said I did order a new aftermarket chain. I am also going to put in a different cam not a lot since I don't want to change out the whole system. So you 400 people is that correct what I have read would like to know ?
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
Way back when, I bought a high quality double roller timing chain and tried this trick and was never able to make it run right. Once I threw in the towel and bought a mild aftermarket cam, the engine ran decent. I then went on and built a 400 out of that engine, added an Edelbrock and Holley, ported and milled the heads. After that I had a really good running engine.
from my experience if I were you I would go with a mild cam in the 205 degree @.050 range and by all means use a high quality aftermarket double roller timing set, and install it straight up.
My $0.02,
from my experience if I were you I would go with a mild cam in the 205 degree @.050 range and by all means use a high quality aftermarket double roller timing set, and install it straight up.
My $0.02,
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 514
Likes: 26
The three most dangerous words are, "I have heard".
http://grantorinosport.orgBubbaf250/
Has a lot of info on the 351M/400 that is pretty much all correct. EVERYONE thinks "fixing" the 400's "retarded camshaft timing" is the key to unbelievable performance. I am attaching a copy of BubbaF250's writeup on the retarded cam timing issue. Bottom line is that Ford didn't put 400s with retarded cam timing in pickups.
R.
http://grantorinosport.orgBubbaf250/
Has a lot of info on the 351M/400 that is pretty much all correct. EVERYONE thinks "fixing" the 400's "retarded camshaft timing" is the key to unbelievable performance. I am attaching a copy of BubbaF250's writeup on the retarded cam timing issue. Bottom line is that Ford didn't put 400s with retarded cam timing in pickups.
R.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,662
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From: southwest missouri
Retarded timing chains (literally!)
As a Ford enthusiast you should always remember that the 70's and early 80's were not great times for factory performance. When a 400 cid engine is offered with an embarrassing 173 horsepower, there is some drastically wrong! The problem of course was emissions standards, and Fords attempt to make huge displacement V8's meet the same requirements as imports vehicles. These new standards resulting in Ford doing some strange things to the engines. One of these things was timing chains with built in cam-retard. The crank and cam sprockets were setup so that the cam would actually be as much as six degrees retarded. This was not only on the 351M/400 engines, but even 302's and other Ford V8s. If you want a immediate increase in performance from a stock 70's or 80's Ford V8, replace the timing chain with a aftermarket piece (not a stock replacement, which probably will have the same retarded gears.
Well hell Cowboy you caught me !!!!
As a Ford enthusiast you should always remember that the 70's and early 80's were not great times for factory performance. When a 400 cid engine is offered with an embarrassing 173 horsepower, there is some drastically wrong! The problem of course was emissions standards, and Fords attempt to make huge displacement V8's meet the same requirements as imports vehicles. These new standards resulting in Ford doing some strange things to the engines. One of these things was timing chains with built in cam-retard. The crank and cam sprockets were setup so that the cam would actually be as much as six degrees retarded. This was not only on the 351M/400 engines, but even 302's and other Ford V8s. If you want a immediate increase in performance from a stock 70's or 80's Ford V8, replace the timing chain with a aftermarket piece (not a stock replacement, which probably will have the same retarded gears.
Well hell Cowboy you caught me !!!!
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 111
From: southwest missouri
Beginning in MY 1973, Ford retarded camshaft timing by 6 degrees on all 335-series engines (except the 351C 4V) to meet emission control regulations. Camshaft timing was retarded by changing the keyway offset from the alignment mark on the crankshaft timing sprocket.
Hey dog this is from Bubbas article so put the beer down and read the thing. I do appreciate you bringing to my attention the article of Bubba as I like to read and learn before I step in someones shi-
Hey dog this is from Bubbas article so put the beer down and read the thing. I do appreciate you bringing to my attention the article of Bubba as I like to read and learn before I step in someones shi-
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 514
Likes: 26
I can't let this pass, you owe ME a beer!
Sorry Art, but this time you didn't read the next paragraph. M-Block 351M/400 Performance It's in the blue sidebar THE 6th PARAGRAPH. I cannot copy and paste it so I have extracted the sixth paragraph and put it in Word format which I am attaching to this post. The seventh paragraph implies that the retarded cam timing, on those engines not put in Ford pickups, can be remedied by changing the timing set.
R.
R.
Last edited by ctubutis; Feb 15, 2019 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Fix hyperlink
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2015
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From: southwest missouri
You have to come here and drink it. I will even let you drink some of my home brew 
I sure don't want to get in a pissing match on this and I am glad that you led me to bubba but I have never said that the motor came out of a pick up right now it is in a pick up a 1955 f-100 . The paragraph does state that it is retarded and this is what I have been saying. I have purchased a aftermarket chain and cam since I have to put on a new oil pan to clear the independent front suspension. Dogdays where are you located ?
I sure don't want to get in a pissing match on this and I am glad that you led me to bubba but I have never said that the motor came out of a pick up right now it is in a pick up a 1955 f-100 . The paragraph does state that it is retarded and this is what I have been saying. I have purchased a aftermarket chain and cam since I have to put on a new oil pan to clear the independent front suspension. Dogdays where are you located ?
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Lead Driver
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I have read in Ford Muscle that ford retarded the timing in the 400's and other motors in the early 80's for fuel mileage. I have asked other engine builders about that and have not got much out of them. I am in the process of pulling my 400 to put a new IFS in and I have to change the pan so when I heard about this timing chain stuff I figured that I should change that also. I am not much of an engine man but could you not just move the chain back up to top and then set the timing. With all that said I did order a new aftermarket chain. I am also going to put in a different cam not a lot since I don't want to change out the whole system. So you 400 people is that correct what I have read would like to know ?
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Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,754
Likes: 2,587
From: The Shenandoah Valley
I used a Crane "Fireball" cam, hydraulic, same specs as Summit Racing Part Number: EDL-2172 which is Edelbrock Performer cam I believe. I used 16 new oem style hyd. lifters and never touched valve springs until I had the heads redone a few years later. I seldom ever see tach over 4K even. I think several places offer same grind, but "Fireball", not so sure … it was in late '80s and is still going today.
Basic Operating RPM Range: Idle-5,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 214
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204 int./214 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 282
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 292
Advertised Duration: 282 int./292 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.484 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.484 int./0.510 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
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