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If you follow Ross' instructions I see no reason why it shouldn't run other than maybe a vacuum leak. Fwiw, a 12 volt coil is still a 6 volt coil, it just has the resistor built into it. If you can keep it running long enough to read a vacuum gauge it might give you some clues.
Okay I will try the Ross plan this weekend hopefully. Two questions for now though. One, the wire I am disconnecting from the coil to the distributor, is it the main coil wire in the center of the coil to the center of the distributor or is it the small wire on the positive side of the coil to the distributor? Second question, if the points are opening too much before TDC and I need to retard what direction is that clockwise or counter-clockwise? Thanks, Phil
Okay I will try the Ross plan this weekend hopefully. Two questions for now though. One, the wire I am disconnecting from the coil to the distributor, is it the main coil wire in the center of the coil to the center of the distributor or is it the small wire on the positive side of the coil to the distributor? Second question, if the points are opening too much before TDC and I need to retard what direction is that clockwise or counter-clockwise? Thanks, Phil
It's the small wire that runs from the (+) terminal on your coil to the bottom side of the distributor. Rotating the distributor clockwise retards, CCW advances.
This is how the manual says to do it. With an ohmmeter you don't have to rely on eyesight to tell when the points open:
Alright, that got me in the ball park and I got the engine running. It did okay and I was even able to get it to stay running long enough (15 minutes or more) to move the distributor to make some small adjustment in the engine. And I did get a timing light on it a little. The timing marks were pretty close for what I could see. The mark was flashing just a little past TDC. So long enough where I was able to almost get a decent idle. The idle screw did not seem to change the idle much at all. Okay so I let it run and felt pretty good, but I have been here before. I went out the next day to see if it would start and idle like the previous day. It started but would just not keep going. I had changed nothing. Then the more I tried to restart and run it the worst it got to the point where it was backfiring, coughing and everything else. So I left it to try another day. Today it started immediately and I felt like it was going to run. It actually was better than yesterday with no backfiring and coughing but I could not help it to hang on. It just seems like it just is not getting the gas. It starts to die so I give it a little throttle but then it really starts to die and I have to pump, pump, pump to keep it going but then it seems like that is too much. Then it just starts to get worse, maybe because at this point I am flooding it? and it won't start at all so I leave it to rest and recharge my battery. Close, but no consistency. I cannot get it to start and run 2 or 3 days in a row. Ignition or fuel? I am thinking I bet it is something easy if I was experienced but I am not. Why would it be okay one day and then not the next when I made no adjustments?
Yes, I have vacuum wipers which I pulled out of the dash and they are sitting on the fender still hooked to the carburetor. No, I did not have a vacuum gauge on it. I do not have one. And I am thinking the engine isn't running consistent enough to actually get a valid read on the vacuum gauge. Like today I could not even keep it running. Are you both thinking vacuum? Is a vacuum gauge going to help me at this point? Should I just buy a new vacuum advance?
I had my wiper motor rebuilt because it was not working properly, I also had a problem with a lot of backfiring and noise through the carburetor. When I installed the wiper motor my problems went away, apparently I was drawing air through the wiper motor.
So maybe I should disconnect my wipers from the carburetor, plug the outlet on the carburetor and see if that changes anything. A simple thing to try. Thanks.
Okay gang. Is this a possibility? Today a start right away. Thought I might be okay, but then the hesitation and it died. Tried a restart and not even a pop. So I said it's as if it does not have spark. Sure enough when I checked for spark, nothing. I had run into this before and thought it was me doing something incorrectly. I think I may even have changed condenser but was trying everything in those days. And with the 6 volt battery I was pretty much one and done for restarts. With my 12 volt battery I have more chances in a day. Today, I got it to TDC and checked the points. Did a re-gap and put the distributor cap back on. Fired right up, started to run and then died. Checked for spark again and nothing. Gap still good. So is my non continuous running, hesitation, back fire all related to some sort of intermittent spark? Condenser? Coil? Remember I have no wiring other than the hot wire from starter relay to coil. Is this something you have run into before where there is spark, no spark and the engine tries to run? So I am feeling like if this is a thing I might be getting closer to a running engine. What do you think?
This is the order that I would check things based on your description.
1) External coil resistor (if equipped).
2) Condenser (See manual for specs).
3) Ignition coil.
4) Disconnect your wiper motor and plug in a non-dampened vacuum gauge.
Can I assume that you have a switch of some sort in that wire that goes "from starter relay to coil"?
Thanks so much for the support. This has been such a long haul for me and you have been helpful with your suggestions. So I was originally setting up everything for a 6 volt positive ground. Got a new 6 volt coil, points and condenser, 6 volt generator and regulator. The 6 volt battery just could not give me enough cranks to keep my engine running to work on tuning it. So when Mixer Man gave me the list to check things I started thinking, maybe this is where I should make the switch to 12 volt negative ground and then try to get it running in this set up as I move to the future. I have no wiring so I am not worried about wrecking anything right now. But I feel like I need to get one system instead of my cobbled set up now (12 volt battery, resistor to 6 volt coil...). I have some pictures and a drawing if I can get those attached for you so you can see what I now have but then I have a list of questions for me making the switch.
List of questions.
1) I have a 12 volt battery. Should I now switch everything to negative ground?
2) I need a 12 volt coil. Do I get one with an internal resistor (seems easier)? Do I get one without? Then do I need a resistor of some sort and where does that go in? When I go for parts what year truck should I say or do I ask for a specific brand?
3) 12 volt condenser. What year truck should I ask for or specific number or brand?
4) Resistors. I thought if I got everything 12 volt I would no longer need a resistor (now using because 12 volt battery to 6 volt coil). But not sure with coils mentioned above.
5) I bought new spark plug wires because I thought I might be losing spark through bad wires (although I bought new through one of the vintage dealers). But there does seem to be some cracking on the wires (maybe old when I got them). But the spark plug wires (NAPA) don't have wire but a new high efficiency material... will those work on this flathead?
6 Non dampening vacuum gauge. Is that just a standard vacuum gauge I can buy at the parts store?
As I read around the forums most of you seem to have converted to 12 volt and many to msd systems. I feel like I am kicking around an old system by trying to stay 6 volt. I feel like 12 volt my save my efforts. I have been working on this since March and it still is not running. I don't even know if the transmission, drive train even work. I know I need complete rewiring and brakes. Sorry, just getting desperate as I thought it would be going better for me. Don't mind work as long as I am moving forward. Let me know what you think.
So I was originally setting up everything for a 6 volt positive ground. Got a new 6 volt coil, points and condenser, 6 volt generator and regulator. The 6 volt battery just could not give me enough cranks to keep my engine running to work on tuning it. So when Mixer Man gave me the list to check things I started thinking, maybe this is where I should make the switch to 12 volt negative ground and then try to get it running in this set up as I move to the future. I have no wiring so I am not worried about wrecking anything right now. But I feel like I need to get one system instead of my cobbled set up now (12 volt battery, resistor to 6 volt coil...). I have some pictures and a drawing if I can get those attached for you so you can see what I now have but then I have a list of questions for me making the switch.
List of questions.
1) I have a 12 volt battery. Should I now switch everything to negative ground? This is a personal choice, but since you pretty much have a blank canvas, and already have the battery and starter relay, it would be easy to move forward to 12 volt negative ground system.
2) I need a 12 volt coil. Do I get one with an internal resistor (seems easier)? Do I get one without? Then do I need a resistor of some sort and where does that go in? A 12 volt coil still only puts out a nominal 6 to 7.5 volts to the distributor because of the built-in resistor - it does not require an external resistor. A 6 volt coil requires a resistor to be run on 12 volts, otherwise not. What you might be concerned about is if the coil is oil filled or epoxy potted. The potted coils are a few bucks more but have a higher secondary output and are less prone to failure. Note: You can't get a 12 volt coil without an internal resistor.
2.5) When I go for parts what year truck should I say or do I ask for a specific brand? Just specify parts for your truck as-is. If you go to a NAPA store you should get Echlin ignition parts.
3) 12 volt condenser. What year truck should I ask for or specific number or brand? See #2.5 above.
4) Resistors. I thought if I got everything 12 volt I would no longer need a resistor (now using because 12 volt battery to 6 volt coil). But not sure with coils mentioned above. See #2 above.
5) I bought new spark plug wires because I thought I might be losing spark through bad wires (although I bought new through one of the vintage dealers). But there does seem to be some cracking on the wires (maybe old when I got them). But the spark plug wires (NAPA) don't have wire but a new high efficiency material... will those work on this flathead? Yes, and preferred if you will ever have a radio.
6) Non dampening vacuum gauge. Is that just a standard vacuum gauge I can buy at the parts store? Dash mounted vacuum gauges, like a Motor Minder, are dampened and are not suitable for diagnostic work. You can pick up an inexpensive testgauge at Harbor Freight or any auto parts store.
As I read around the forums most of you seem to have converted to 12 volt and many to msd systems. I feel like I am kicking around an old system by trying to stay 6 volt. I feel like 12 volt my save my efforts. I have been working on this since March and it still is not running. I don't even know if the transmission, drive train even work. I know I need complete rewiring and brakes. Sorry, just getting desperate as I thought it would be going better for me. Don't mind work as long as I am moving forward. Let me know what you think.
On my 12 volt conversion I kept the original points and condenser and I installed a 12 volt potted Bosch coil and resistor spark plug wires.
Hope this helps.
I am using the button on the bottom of my solenoid as my starter button. Yeah, what damage do I do to my 6 volt coil and points if I connect a 12 volt battery to get the engine cranking faster?
i too think it is the coil . The points will be fine but you can change to a 12v condenser or you will burn out 6v . Starter is no prblem they work on 12v
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