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Without data it's just your opinion and all you've been able to provide is just that, your opinion. I have no data specifically on Super Duty quality for model years with significant changes. I'm going to surmise that you don't either.
Just 20 personal years worth of first year Ford HD truck introductions that support my opinion with fact.
Let me mention a hard fact that you are overlooking. The Ford F series has been the best selling truck for how long? 40 some years worth of HARD data? And Ford accomplished that feat without selling a single first year production vehicle I presume. I believe Ford accomplished that by building trust and a solid commercial/personal track record.
I personally do not use a generalized washing machine and ink cartridge testers to form my opinion on buying a new Ford truck.. I surmise that you do.
You are conveniently painting all motor vehicles with the same brush. Just be honest with yourself, it’s ok to have a little envy, but it’s a little sad to toss tomatoes on a vehicle that you have admitted to not have a track record of first year flops or detracting facts.
If I were to combine all the decades of my personal experience, with all the experience of every person I've ever met, combined with all of my professional experience in fleet related matters, I still could not assemble enough data to be considered statistically significant.
New engines and 10 speed aside, one question might be did they fix the already existing death wobble, frozen locks and latches, driveline clunk, long crank, and reverse shudder.
If I were to combine all the decades of my personal experience, with all the experience of every person I've ever met, combined with all of my professional experience in fleet related matters, I still could not assemble enough data to be considered statistically significant.
And that’s the issue with magazine tests and opinions.
A collection of Supposed personal observations and opinions, nothing to be considered as true fact, but taken as bible by some..
Well, there you have it. Anecdotal evidence of one trumps a survey of 400,000 vehicle owners.
Sorry this is not an opinion or some observation in which I was not involved but just an onlooker but based upon FACTUAL evidence. CR needs to stick to washing machines, nor do I believe CR polled 400,000 people who drove Short wheelbase jeeps.
YJ 1987-1995 Total Production 557,000
TJ 1997-2006 Total production 965,000
Jeep NOT a high production vehicle. So other than my '15 the rest were either YJ or TJ of which they made abouyt 1.5M world wide. So CR contacted 400,000 of them, almost 1/3.
nor do I believe CR polled 400,000 people who drove short wheelbase jeeps.
YJ 1987-1995 Total Production 557,000
TJ 1997-2006 Total production 965,000
So other than my '15 the rest were either YJ or TJ of which they made about 1.5M world wide. So CR contacted 400,000 of them, almost 1/3.
I re-read the last two pages of this thread, and could not find where anyone suggested that 400,000 Jeep owners were surveyed.
I checked CR's website, and found that CR did not say that they did either.
It sounds like CR obtains it's survey data from a pool of nearly a half million people who already care enough about consumer reports (not the magazine, but the noun) to pay for them in the form of a subscription. Thus, the pool of respondents is data motivated, both seeking, and contributing to, a pool of data that is larger than their own experience. I find that hard to discount.
Just 20 personal years worth of first year Ford HD truck introductions that support my opinion with fact.
Let me mention a hard fact that you are overlooking. The Ford F series has been the best selling truck for how long? 40 some years worth of HARD data? And Ford accomplished that feat without selling a single first year production vehicle I presume. I believe Ford accomplished that by building trust and a solid commercial/personal track record.
I personally do not use a generalized washing machine and ink cartridge testers to form my opinion on buying a new Ford truck.. I surmise that you do.
You are one person, buying one truck. You are hardly a blip on the radar for any argument for or against a new model year vehicle (or even for Fords in general)
Originally Posted by George C
You are conveniently painting all motor vehicles with the same brush.
It gets a little thick to now fear their automakers ability, ignore 9 million miles of testing and a successful lineage of solid improvements with.. cough cough...CR as a source, and then deny/ignore the proven overall introductions/successes of the very trucks we all drive.
Thread is now reopened, ladies and gentlemen. And let those of us already in this thread be exactly that... gentlemen.
The debate about whether to grab a '19 right now, in the third year of the '17-'19 production run... or wait for a first year '20 that introduces a brand new transmission and an entirely brand new gas engine, along with a completely revised diesel down to the pistons and con rods... is a healthy debate, and a worthy discussion that definitely belongs in this forum.
What doesn't belong are personal insults that demean or belittle any other FTE member participating in this discussion. Attack the argument, not the arguer. Proof that a point is fallacious does not require insulting the person making the point.
"For the 2004 model year, the F-150 was redesigned on an all-new platform. Internally, a 3-valve version of the 5.4 Liter V8 was introduced and replaced the previous 2-valve version."
"A new model for 2010 included the SVT Raptor, a dedicated off-road pickup" (First gen Raptors had frame bending issues) "As part of a major focus on fuel economy, the entire engine lineup for the F-150 was updated for the 2011 model year. Along with two new V8 engines, the F-150 gained a new 3.7 Liter base V6 engine, and a powerful twin-turbocharged 3.5 Liter V6, dubbed EcoBoost by Ford. An automatic transmission is the only option."
"The thirteenth-generation Ford F-Series was introduced for the 2015 model year."
2008, 2011, and 2017. Do those years ring a bell? Yep, first year models. I left out the boring details since you should be familiar with them.
And how about a Chebby to round things out.
2007 was the first year of their 10th generation Suburban
2015 was the first year of their 11th generation Suburban
This is just the first three that came to my mind to check. There are a hundred or more cars/suv/pickup models that this can be done with.
Mike drop....I'm out. Just something to chew on OP. You may get lucky with a 'good' 2020...who knows?
