B code vs F code Superduty rears
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
And just to clear the air,
I have no problem with ATS and acknowledge they have good customer service and that back in the day the X/B or C spring was a decent way to go..
but with better option available now why dont you or the suspension Engineer tell us why you think a dual rate spring with a1000 pound spring rate is the BEST option for the Excursion.
But since I already know you can’t why don’t you guys built a spring exclusively for the Excursion that has a better spring rate and more up travel ?
Getting by selling the F250 spring is not doing us Excursion owners any favors when you could just as easily build a spring and design a suspension exclusively for the Excursion. Make a better setup then the procomp 22210/22415 combo and I will be happy to recommend it. But your junk yard setup is not going to earn my stamp of approval when better options are easily available.
I have no problem with ATS and acknowledge they have good customer service and that back in the day the X/B or C spring was a decent way to go..
but with better option available now why dont you or the suspension Engineer tell us why you think a dual rate spring with a1000 pound spring rate is the BEST option for the Excursion.
But since I already know you can’t why don’t you guys built a spring exclusively for the Excursion that has a better spring rate and more up travel ?
Getting by selling the F250 spring is not doing us Excursion owners any favors when you could just as easily build a spring and design a suspension exclusively for the Excursion. Make a better setup then the procomp 22210/22415 combo and I will be happy to recommend it. But your junk yard setup is not going to earn my stamp of approval when better options are easily available.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
If a new suspension isn't in the budget and your current springs are not sagged then for $200 consider a new set of the KYB Mono Max shocks.
I have provided links to all the parts you need and narrowed it down to 2 vendors for the Procomp 22210/22415 setup that will put your ride height at 27". ( 4" over stock)
this rides great on the highway and performs excellent off road and will clear 35's
this setup eliminates the rear block which reduces axle wrap and the need for a rear sway bar
plus it increases caster and corrects the driveline angle, this will make it track straight and true and completely eliminates wander. ( assuming the rest of your steering is in order )
Total cost $1074 complete
Front Procomp leaf springs 22210 $90 each
Rear Procomp Leaf 22415 $106 each
Zone adjustable Track Bar $100
Bilsteins 5100 shocks
Front $180 pair
Rear $156
Ubolts
Front $54
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Front...ts/19732/16883
Rear 8’’Ubolts x 3.5” round $47
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/WFO-I...ts/19732/16924
3’ Spring Plate rear $38 pair
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/3-Lea...rd/16828/17035
Front 3’ wide 2* shim $35 pair
Rear 3” wide 2* shim $35 pair
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/cr/3-Inch-Axle-Shims/4384
I have provided links to all the parts you need and narrowed it down to 2 vendors for the Procomp 22210/22415 setup that will put your ride height at 27". ( 4" over stock)
this rides great on the highway and performs excellent off road and will clear 35's
this setup eliminates the rear block which reduces axle wrap and the need for a rear sway bar
plus it increases caster and corrects the driveline angle, this will make it track straight and true and completely eliminates wander. ( assuming the rest of your steering is in order )
Total cost $1074 complete
Front Procomp leaf springs 22210 $90 each
Rear Procomp Leaf 22415 $106 each
Zone adjustable Track Bar $100
Bilsteins 5100 shocks
Front $180 pair
Rear $156
Ubolts
Front $54
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Front...ts/19732/16883
Rear 8’’Ubolts x 3.5” round $47
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/WFO-I...ts/19732/16924
3’ Spring Plate rear $38 pair
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/3-Lea...rd/16828/17035
Front 3’ wide 2* shim $35 pair
Rear 3” wide 2* shim $35 pair
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/cr/3-Inch-Axle-Shims/4384
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 1,549
From: Media PA
Referencing those two pictures, it looks like the Ex is sitting on it's tires and the F-250 is on a lift with the suspension at full droop. Not the "perfect" comparison as it tilts the scenario more towards the pickup, even though the facts support the argument the weight being on and off the springs is a bit of apples vs oranges.
My "modded" B codes don't sit quite as flat as the ones shown, but I guess those two reused EX bottom leaves are helping with that. Unloaded mine definitely doesn't ride like a Caddy but since most miles driven are with 6K+lbs on the rear axle my Frankenstein setup is getting the job done. Replacing the whole works with the other option and air bags sounds like it would offer a better ride but it will be a while before I have an extra $1k that I'm willing to throw at it to find out, too many other projects waiting on the extra cash list here.
Mine.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 346
Likes: 3
Referencing those two pictures, it looks like the Ex is sitting on it's tires and the F-250 is on a lift with the suspension at full droop. Not the "perfect" comparison as it tilts the scenario more towards the pickup, even though the facts support the argument the weight being on and off the springs is a bit of apples vs oranges.
My "modded" B codes don't sit quite as flat as the ones shown, but I guess those two reused EX bottom leaves are helping with that. Unloaded mine definitely doesn't ride like a Caddy but since most miles driven are with 6K+lbs on the rear axle my Frankenstein setup is getting the job done. Replacing the whole works with the other option and air bags sounds like it would offer a better ride but it will be a while before I have an extra $1k that I'm willing to throw at it to find out, too many other projects waiting on the extra cash list here.
Mine.
My "modded" B codes don't sit quite as flat as the ones shown, but I guess those two reused EX bottom leaves are helping with that. Unloaded mine definitely doesn't ride like a Caddy but since most miles driven are with 6K+lbs on the rear axle my Frankenstein setup is getting the job done. Replacing the whole works with the other option and air bags sounds like it would offer a better ride but it will be a while before I have an extra $1k that I'm willing to throw at it to find out, too many other projects waiting on the extra cash list here.
Mine.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
The Modded rear pack is a whole different scenario.
Oh and I don’t know if that pic was taken on a lift or jack stands but either way it was just meant to illustrate the gap. We know from the graph that the gap is 4.6” of travel at curb weight ride height.
Tom,
i would love a pic of your rear springs when you are fully loaded but it looks to me like with the additional 2 bottom leafs that your spring would have to go well past inverted to actually fully engage the pack to contribute it’s full spring rate.
for the most part it seems to me the way you have it configured so that the overload leaf is just a block.
( although there is some additional rate being added by the contact with the bottom Ex leaf.
Your main pack spring rate is very likely similar to the stock excursion since the top 4 springs from the F250 are the of similar dimensions to the Excursions then by adding the bottom 2 leafs from the Excursion it likely puts you right at the stock 410 pounds per inch but now with 7 inches of travel.
if you multiply the 7” of travel by a spring of 410 pounds per inch that would give a capacity of 2870 per spring or 5740 total which as you know exceeds the rear axles 5250 pound rating. We could calculate how much spring Your overload is contributing by measuring the amount of contact it makes with the very bottom Excursion leaf when fully compressed but what ever it will likely be a moot point since without it you are already well over the axles rating
Oh and I don’t know if that pic was taken on a lift or jack stands but either way it was just meant to illustrate the gap. We know from the graph that the gap is 4.6” of travel at curb weight ride height.
Tom,
i would love a pic of your rear springs when you are fully loaded but it looks to me like with the additional 2 bottom leafs that your spring would have to go well past inverted to actually fully engage the pack to contribute it’s full spring rate.
for the most part it seems to me the way you have it configured so that the overload leaf is just a block.
( although there is some additional rate being added by the contact with the bottom Ex leaf.
Your main pack spring rate is very likely similar to the stock excursion since the top 4 springs from the F250 are the of similar dimensions to the Excursions then by adding the bottom 2 leafs from the Excursion it likely puts you right at the stock 410 pounds per inch but now with 7 inches of travel.
if you multiply the 7” of travel by a spring of 410 pounds per inch that would give a capacity of 2870 per spring or 5740 total which as you know exceeds the rear axles 5250 pound rating. We could calculate how much spring Your overload is contributing by measuring the amount of contact it makes with the very bottom Excursion leaf when fully compressed but what ever it will likely be a moot point since without it you are already well over the axles rating
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
which going back to my statement that by adding longer travel allows the use of a lower spring rate to improve the ride and handling which you can use unlike your now higher capacity.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
anybody in Northern Ca have a stock Excursion with a clapped out ( sagged an inch or more ) rear suspension I can borrow to settle a friendly little wager ? ( only caveat is you can’t know Me or ATS, I will return it back to clapped out , after you judge the ride quality )
SPONSOR
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Likes: 6
From: Souderton
care to make a wager on that statement ? Say $100 bucks ?
anybody in Northern Ca have a stock Excursion with a clapped out ( sagged an inch or more ) rear suspension I can borrow to settle a friendly little wager ? ( only caveat is you can’t know Me or ATS, I will return it back to clapped out , after you judge the ride quality )
anybody in Northern Ca have a stock Excursion with a clapped out ( sagged an inch or more ) rear suspension I can borrow to settle a friendly little wager ? ( only caveat is you can’t know Me or ATS, I will return it back to clapped out , after you judge the ride quality )
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
I assure you I would never jeopardize somebodys safety over a bet and I promise the suspension will move as Ford intended including hitting the bump stop as it was designed to.
oh and I am serious so if want to continue to underestimate a retired guy with lots of time and money on his hands that has a life long career and passion for designing, fabricating and racing suspensions I will be happy to take your money. .
oh and I am serious so if want to continue to underestimate a retired guy with lots of time and money on his hands that has a life long career and passion for designing, fabricating and racing suspensions I will be happy to take your money. .
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 346
Likes: 3
Though I’m satisfied with my X/Mod B codes (mentioned V codes earlier but was mistaken) from ATS, I am curious about how the ProComps would stack up against what I’ve got. The ride is nice, just wish now that they’ve settled out that I had another 1.5” or so of height like it was 5k miles ago with new springs.
The front shackles are within an inch or so of contacting the frame rail again, similar to how they were with my stock springs, the X codes have nearly flattened out since I’ve been driving on them. Maybe it was addition of my 200# ranch hand grille guard that overdid it, I don’t know? Maybe the “modified Xcode” would have been more appropriate, again or possibly the ProComps.
The front shackles are within an inch or so of contacting the frame rail again, similar to how they were with my stock springs, the X codes have nearly flattened out since I’ve been driving on them. Maybe it was addition of my 200# ranch hand grille guard that overdid it, I don’t know? Maybe the “modified Xcode” would have been more appropriate, again or possibly the ProComps.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
Though I’m satisfied with my X/Mod B codes (mentioned V codes earlier but was mistaken) from ATS, I am curious about how the ProComps would stack up against what I’ve got. The ride is nice, just wish now that they’ve settled out that I had another 1.5” or so of height like it was 5k miles ago with new springs.
The front shackles are within an inch or so of contacting the frame rail again, similar to how they were with my stock springs, the X codes have nearly flattened out since I’ve been driving on them. Maybe it was addition of my 200# ranch hand grille guard that overdid it, I don’t know? Maybe the “modified Xcode” would have been more appropriate, again or possibly the ProComps.
The front shackles are within an inch or so of contacting the frame rail again, similar to how they were with my stock springs, the X codes have nearly flattened out since I’ve been driving on them. Maybe it was addition of my 200# ranch hand grille guard that overdid it, I don’t know? Maybe the “modified Xcode” would have been more appropriate, again or possibly the ProComps.
on the Excursion stock springs I recommend replacement at 1” of sag.
The V-10 Ex came with a spring rate of 350 lbs inch in the front
the Psd Ex came with a front spring rate of 380 pounds per inch.
V codes are 430 pounds per inch
X codes are 470 pounds per inch
the procomp 22210 has a rate of 430 pounds per inch.
If you have a v10 and assuming your ranch hand weighs around 200 pounds more then a stock bumper then with a ranch hand installed it will compress a set of procomp 22210 .28” and will compress the X codes .21” more vs the stock bumper.
i don’t think your sag issue is a matter of your spring rate, it sounds more like a quality issue.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 346
Likes: 3
I am a 7.3 psd, and the brush guard was 225# measured before I bolted it on, the springs feel great...nice and plush. My measurements however have lost 1.5” since new.
I’ve been trying to figure this out, but it shouldn’t be physically possible for the shackles to contact the frame so long as the springs aren’t longer than stock, right? I do have good condition bump stops installed just in case it ever decides to bottom out.
I’ve been trying to figure this out, but it shouldn’t be physically possible for the shackles to contact the frame so long as the springs aren’t longer than stock, right? I do have good condition bump stops installed just in case it ever decides to bottom out.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
I edited the 350,,,,, I read your 200 pounds but typed 350 pounds because I was looking at v10 spring rates.
200 pound ranch hand would compress the psd springs .26”
no the shackles should not hit the frame... post a pic
200 pound ranch hand would compress the psd springs .26”
no the shackles should not hit the frame... post a pic
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 1,549
From: Media PA
The Modded rear pack is a whole different scenario.
Oh and I don’t know if that pic was taken on a lift or jack stands but either way it was just meant to illustrate the gap. We know from the graph that the gap is 4.6” of travel at curb weight ride height.
Tom,
i would love a pic of your rear springs when you are fully loaded but it looks to me like with the additional 2 bottom leafs that your spring would have to go well past inverted to actually fully engage the pack to contribute it’s full spring rate.
for the most part it seems to me the way you have it configured so that the overload leaf is just a block.
( although there is some additional rate being added by the contact with the bottom Ex leaf.
Your main pack spring rate is very likely similar to the stock excursion since the top 4 springs from the F250 are the of similar dimensions to the Excursions then by adding the bottom 2 leafs from the Excursion it likely puts you right at the stock 410 pounds per inch but now with 7 inches of travel.
if you multiply the 7” of travel by a spring of 410 pounds per inch that would give a capacity of 2870 per spring or 5740 total which as you know exceeds the rear axles 5250 pound rating. We could calculate how much spring Your overload is contributing by measuring the amount of contact it makes with the very bottom Excursion leaf when fully compressed but what ever it will likely be a moot point since without it you are already well over the axles rating
Oh and I don’t know if that pic was taken on a lift or jack stands but either way it was just meant to illustrate the gap. We know from the graph that the gap is 4.6” of travel at curb weight ride height.
Tom,
i would love a pic of your rear springs when you are fully loaded but it looks to me like with the additional 2 bottom leafs that your spring would have to go well past inverted to actually fully engage the pack to contribute it’s full spring rate.
for the most part it seems to me the way you have it configured so that the overload leaf is just a block.
( although there is some additional rate being added by the contact with the bottom Ex leaf.
Your main pack spring rate is very likely similar to the stock excursion since the top 4 springs from the F250 are the of similar dimensions to the Excursions then by adding the bottom 2 leafs from the Excursion it likely puts you right at the stock 410 pounds per inch but now with 7 inches of travel.
if you multiply the 7” of travel by a spring of 410 pounds per inch that would give a capacity of 2870 per spring or 5740 total which as you know exceeds the rear axles 5250 pound rating. We could calculate how much spring Your overload is contributing by measuring the amount of contact it makes with the very bottom Excursion leaf when fully compressed but what ever it will likely be a moot point since without it you are already well over the axles rating
Well, for the next 21 days we will be on the road so snapping a picture of the rear springs loaded shouldn't be a problem as long as my soggy brain can remember to do it. My scale ticket from a weekend trip shows 6220lbs with WD and 6920lbs without WD so with this longer trip those will be a little higher.
I know that's over the axle rating of 5250lbs (on the sticker) but I've seen Sterling 10.5" axle ratings variously listed at 6830, 7200 and 7600, so many number out there floating around it gets muttled sometimes, what's the real Sterling actual axle rating?