I believe the brand is duralast, so I can replace for free under warranty. My google-fu has led me to believe that many many people with the infamous header heat soak have replaced them with the mini torque starters and have had no problems since. Being a man of science though, (and broke) I'd rather test. My only problem at that point would be to find what is failing like you stated, and how to keep it from happening.

 

This is probably a long-shot, but I would make sure and eliminate the actual ignition switch as a source of trouble too. I've never heard of an failing ignition switch causing that exact problem, but they are notorious for having issues. Using a remote ignition switch to activate the starter solenoid will also make doing your underhood troubleshooting a LOT easier.

 

I'm not ruling out anything at this point, since I've had to replace fenderwell solenoids just about once a week for a while...

testing results:
battery had 12.38 volts , when cranking, had 10.9 volts at battery. Put on trickle charger to get it back up a bit.

with voltmeter set to 20 volts, pos on battery to pos on stud of starter .65- more than .5 so no good.

same testing ground side system, showed .20, so good.

so I've got a leak somewhere in the positive current of the battery.

if I remember correctly, battery goes to solenoid on fender travels through solenoid via ign remote switch out the other side, down to starter, so I will rule out one side at a time, so test before solenoid and after solenoid

 

Yeah if the solenoids keep going bad I'd really take a good look at the ignition switch and the wiring to it. Lack of current from the ignition switch is going to keep the solenoid from engaging fully which means it's internal resistance will go high, which leads to excessive heat and lack of current flow to the starter.

 

But wait, something doesn't look right at the solenoid. The S small post has the ignition switch on it, the opposite side that I believe says I has nothing. The top big post has cable from battery running to it, as well as big cable to starter and another wire I believe was spliced in at some time. The opposite big post has one single 10 gauge wire going down to small post on starter.

 

So I have now put battery on one side of solenoid and starter lead on the other side, now, what to do with the small post wire going to the starter?

 

I retract my last statement, after searching google, that is how you wire in the pmgr starter, so I got that part right, so now switching it all back to the way it was, and on with testing....since the battery wire lays right over top the starter wire on the same terminal, I will probe a few inches down through the insulation and see if it's where they lay on top each other.

 

Some things I don't like is the solenoid has 5/16 terminals and cables have 3/8 rings. Also, 4 gauge wire from battery to solenoid, 2 gauge to starter, so I'll make an upgraded one with proper ring terminals. All in a quest to lower that resistance.

 

Good maintenance on the cable and connection testing. It may be they are simply getting old and corroded inside, under the insulation, under the crimp? I figure this is where you got the testing info or someplace similar so reposted here for others in the same boat:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

 

Replaced that section of cable, battery at 12.5 volts, when cranking, drops to 11v.

testing on the positive side now gives me .02 volts resistance, much better! I can now safely rule out that part of the system. I still have no idea the condition of the starter or anything else. I'll start driving it around and waiting for it to replicate itself, to see if we have a winner.

 

I'd like to throw a totally different theory out here just for the sake of asking....is it possible that the truck is running hot at times, maybe due to a thermostat intermittently sticking? Engines and engine bays tend to heat up more for a short period of time after being shut off because the coolant stops circulating and the fan stops drawing air through the engine compartment. The timeframe you are experiencing the trouble in after shut down and the fact that an overheated engine could produce the advanced timing, hard start symptoms you are having as well just made me want to throw this out there...

I'd feel like everyone has you headed in the right direction honestly, but since this hasn't been mentioned yet, I wanted to at least bring it up as a pretty easy to check alternative. Wiring issues can be a nightmare...best of luck to ya brother!

 

I appreciate everyone's input at this point! The last thing I'm willing to do is throw 10 parts at it, fix the problem, and never know why, in the hopes that it will help someone else in the future. Like I said, I have essentially proved tonight that the voltage and ground from battery to starter are sufficient. At this time however, I cannot say the starter is getting older or worn from the bad connections I just fixed. Heat is definitely an option, heat soaked starter, or the raised compression in a heated engine. I will take the fixes that I learned tonight and try to replicate the issue. I'm hoping that the raised underhood temperature and the loose ring terminal and 4 gauge battery to solenoid solves the problem. I feel that the pgrs starter should have plenty of torque to crank this sucker over.....

 

Excellent work! That is a HUGE improvement.

Are you a convert to this test yet? Once you found the positive side was over limits end to end, you could have tested it in sections and isolated the restriction that way, too. Also note how you quickly ruled the negative side. No disassembly or anything else needed there. This is the lazy man's method of troubleshooting, and dang, it works. Thanks for humoring me, as people are often reluctant to try it, thinking you have to be an electrical wizard for it to work.

One more thing to check. Now that you've cleaned up that restriction on the positive side, current flow will also increase on the negative side. It's worth repeating the voltage drop test on the negative side in case it also has a restriction that was masked by the first fault.

I wonder if a heat shield for the starter might help. I'm not crazy about the type that wrap around the starter, though. While they no doubt reflect radiant heat, my hunch is they also trap heat generated by cranking. I was thinking more of a homemade flat metal shield between the starter and exhaust, if you can figure a way to secure it. That way the starter is still in free air for maximum cooling, but direct heat from the exhaust is deflected. Cover the hot side with a thermal barrier like this:

https://www.thermotec.com/products/h...d-heat-barrier

Might be worthwhile to wrap the header pipes, too. Never been a big fan of headers due to heat and longevity issues, but to each his own.

 

I'd give anything a shot, glad I could find it! By looking at the ring terminals and how loose they sat on the post, I could have done more testing, but I deduced since the most obvious point was there, it had to be it. I will check negative side again, I know I've got at the very minimum 4 grounds on the block and chassis (don't ask why) the headers are wrapped and keep in mind, they aren't the block huggers, they are fenderwell exit, so they are further from the starter than stock manifolds were. I believe my next hunch will be to remove the coil lead next time it's a slow start to rule out timing.

One question i have yet is, if I were to take my starter to a box store to get tested, is the testing they do based off a percentage of life left? Or is it black and white, it works, it's good? What I'm getting at is that I can spin it on a bench test and if it spins over are they gonna tell me it's fine and not look at the fact that it's performance has been degraded to an extent?

 

I was able to replicate it again tonight. I worked on the rear drum brakes, and after a decent drive, I checked the rear drum brakes slack. So I shut the truck off, did what I needed to do, got back in to back it into the garage and it did the hit and hard crank deal. It didn't even seem like the starter turned over halfway. I let off the key and tried again, same results. That's when it hit me, "I should do some testing!" so I popped the hood, jumped out and removed the horseshoe connector on the coil. I jumped back in and it spun over easy. Even tried to start. I put the connector back on and it cranked over easy and fired right up. Thinking this was a fluke, I Backed it into the garage and proceeded to shut off and start it up 5 more times with no problems. I'm not sure what I tested there, or if it was just a fluke, but i don't believe it was wiring related, as I already tested, and didn't solve the issue.