The race is already attached to, and is part of, the L/R drum. The TIG welds are to reinforce the bond. I have not done that on mine and have made many 4x4 boosted launches without breaking one. You can cross breed some early E4OD parts in there to eliminate the stamped metal version. IIRC, some changes in the spline counts of the frictions would need to be made. The rebuild kit would need to be customized, or additional parts ordered. It's not something you usually have to do, except for extreme circumstances.

 

Thanks Roland!

Thats one of the things I wonder about with these transmissions. How much strengthening is really needed? I mean in stock form they go from 120-200k+ miles. Some go earlier than others but all trucks are driven (modded) and taken care of differently. In our situation this trans is just in a work truck which only family drives and everyone drives nicely. If it wasn't for the diode this trans may have went 200K easy from the looks of everything in it. If I just rebuild it and it went 200K from here we would be delighted! But I am all for doing any cheap(ish) tricks to help it with reliability like machining the center support. I think I will leave those wavy drums alone as it seem people only beef them up to put up with tuners and extra HP. In stock form they seem to hold up ok. Especially welding to a bearing race, that weakens the hardened race.


What are your guys thoughts on that rebuild kit I posted earlier? Borg frictions was one of the main things I looked for but what about the rest of it? Are those thrust washers better than what was in the trans stock? The stock components seem to be thrust bearings but I have not played with them much to see yet.


Stuff on the way:

I ordered one of those 5 disc direct drums with roller clutch.

I ordered the sonnax spacer ring for after I machine the center support.

And that ATSG book should be here today or tomorrow I believe.



Need yet:

rebuild/clutch kit

possibly the tugger kit

and possibly a converter?

 

Also can someone do me a favor and rep me in this thread?

The "reps" in my user CP do a better job at bookmarking my active threads than the "new subscribed threads" does. Because like it says, it only shows my bookmarked threads if there is a new post in them... :/

 

Anytime there is a failure inside the trans you should replace the torque converter.

The only filter in the trans is at the pump inlet. Once the fluid leaves the pump it isn't filtered again until it makes it's way back to the pump inlet.

The torque converter could have some of the debris from your failure. If it were to work it's way out of the converter it could cause another failure down the road.

I don't understand why they want to raise line pressure. The only thing I can see it will do is create more torque loss inside the trans, which will cause more fuel to be burnt. So if you're goal is to lower your fuel economy as much as possible is makes sense. I don't see any other reason to do that.

 

Thank you for your replies! I like fuel mileage so I think I will leave the line pressure alone.


The only way debris could get to the converter is past the filer and pump right? I understand the filter isn't a very fine element and it is possible for small debris to work its way threw. But can the debris from this sort of failure make its way into the converter some other way besides threw the filter/pump route?


For anyone: Does some place sell a converter rebuild kit and/or the billet front plate? Welding up my own converter is getting pretty wild but if it saved enough money I may contemplate it.

 

The converter is one of the most often upgraded aftermarket 4R100 components. I don't really see how you can skip it, to be honest. Literally every thread I've ever read says that the stamped steel converter is a weak link and it should be replaced with a billett converter. I know this is a budget build, but I would not put that trans back together without a nice shiny new converter in it, and I would not cut any corners on it.

You are tempting me to try refreshing mine myself this summer.

 

I know, I've read all the same things.

I just can't get my head around the total reason 'why' though 'in our case'.

I mean the stock converters can go for 200K+ miles in stock form, some for many many more miles. The only real issue most point out is the weak cover that can flex. Will that happen on a truck that never gets beat nor ever pulls much? It lasted this long without an issue why would now all of a sudden it will flex and get out of shape?

Likewise the trans and converter in my X is stock yet, 180K on the clock and I do tow everything with my X.


I do agree it is something that should be changed in most circumstances especially if a guy plans to install a tuner or whatnot. But in my case I feel the converter is good yet and should remain so until it burns up its clutches yes? Out of all the parts (besides valve body parts) it is the easiest part to change later down the road as well when funds are more sufficient.

But again like I mentioned, if I can get the parts for the converter substantially cheaper than buying a complete converter I may attempt it. :O

 

No, that's not right. If there is a failure in the trans it's possible for some of it to end up anywhere in the trans.

Sonnax sells converter parts. Make sure you have a way to balance the converter. You can't just build the converter, weld it together, and expect it to be balanced.

I've seen that, too. But I know of many stock converters that have gone over 300,000 miles. What would a billet cover add, besides cost?

With big horsepower I can see the need. But with a stock engine, what do you gain except a lighter wallet?

 

You both make good points and have good questions for which I have no answers.

 

After a bunch of reading the last few days I finally went out and took a closer look at all the typical (and not so typical) wear areas.

Center shaft does have some very slight wear on the teeth, maybe about .003" worth.

Forward drum external splines are rough from the frictions hammering them. I didn't have the camera with me and I couldn't find a pic on the net that showed this (at least well). I will get a pic of it later. Good thing these are relatively cheap as well. But it all adds up.

All the rest of the splines everywhere look good.

Only thing I haven't pulled apart yet and looked at are the piston thingies in the bottoms of the drums.



Finally unless someone has a reason not to I think I am going to buy the borg-warner kit I posted earlier tonight.

Probably one of the forward drums off ebay as well.

That should be it to get the internals together. Still have to read more on the valve body stuff. Then make that converter decision.

 

So this morning I ordered that rebuild kit I posted earlier.
Ford E4OD 4R100 Super Deluxe Transmission Rebuild Kit 2WD 1998-On (93242)

I also ordered a forward drum, used in good condition.
4R100 / E4OD C6 Forward Drum 5 clutch OEM FORD F150 F250 F350 OD | eBay

I ordered the sonnax center support ring for when I machine the support.
36743-02 Center Support Ring 4R100, E4OD

I ordered the sonnax spiral ring for I believe OD?
**UPDATE**SONNAX**SURE LOCK**SPIRAL SNAP RING** Fits E4OD & 4R100 Transmissions

Couple days ago I ordered the Direct drum
36555D - 4R100, DIRECT CLUTCH DRUM, 5 CLUTCH, BEARING TYPE, 2 ID ON LUGS, FORD?

And that should be it for ordering stuff for the trans internal. Anything I am missing?

After thinking about it more I think I will leave the valve body stuff stock for now. It is something easy to get to and can be changed any time. I need to do much more reading and research on this to figure out exactly what I would want (possibly nothing).

 

Thanks Roland for the reps! Now I don't have to search every time I want to find my own thread.




Anyone know where to get JUST the coast clutch upgrade snap ring (the thicker, wider one)?


Is John Woods on here? Would he possibly sell just the snap ring?

 

It's always been my understanding (this was heavily debated in the Gen 2 L world over 10 years ago, on which method was best and safer for the trans) that increasing the line pressure via custom tuning was done to decrease the clutch slipping when changing gears. Basically it firmed up the shift points (quicker shifts), which is the same thing a modded valve body does.

Copious pics and it we may have a build thread, yes?

John used to have a custom snap ring made, but that cost spiraled. The last time I talked to him about that specifically, he found a suitable replacement that has been working for him for years.

John is not on FTE.

Stewart

 

Hi Stewart!


I can see where increased line pressure might help some areas of the trans. Like you mention firming up the shift points which I have heard many times over the years for all transmissions helps save the frictions from to much slipping which causes heat and stuff. At the same time I know raising pressure on any sort of fluid system weather it be hydraulic, oiling, or even a water system increases stress on many components. Starting with the pump itself is now under more strain all the time to keep up a higher pressure. From there every o-ring, gasket, or seal also has more pressure on it. Any sort of moving valve, solenoid, gate also then has more pressure to control, divert, stop, etc. This sort of stuff is what makes me question if it is better than worse for the unit over all.


Now I only know what I have learned here from some great people and what I have read online about auto transmissions. So I really have no idea what happens inside of these slush boxes when different mods are made. I have to rely on others advise and knowledge. I can only begin to grasp the idea of upgrading and mods mentioned to be done to the mechanical parts. That is something that goes hand in hand with my years of mechanical knowledge, so those parts I can figure out and see why changes are made. When it comes to the fluid control side of an auto trans I am at a total loss. I know the fluid is used to cool stuff but that's as far as I got. lol


Like always I plan to post pics as I go along with the build.


I sent a message to John on his website. Not sure what to really expect but if I can get a ring out of him I will be delighted!

 

Yes, that can happen. But there is a much more efficient way to do it. Just raise the pressure during the shift. Any tuner can do that.

And I have to ask, "Why do it at all?" Look at the first post in this thread. The friction material still has the ink part numbers. They look brand new. How much better do you want to clutch to be? It shows essentially zero wear.

But in some transmissions (not the 4R100) just blindly raising pressure is going to break parts when the trans shifts. Some shifts cannot just raise pressure or bad things happen.