Its the best if you like and understand 1611 Kings English (which most people don't, Including myself) I prefer a Bible that is written in modern English, Shakespeare was hard for me!

 

AMEN!

 

Huh!

 

Yavapai will have to answer for him/her-self. Here's what came to my mind after reading this exchange.

1. If I live that 'honest' or 'just' life and I haven't 'accepted Jesus....bla bla bla' (Is is possible for fundamentalist christians to speak WITHOUT using their trite, pat, meaningless prhases?) Then how does that affect you in ANY way?

2. If I live that 'honest' or 'just' life won't I be living a more God-like (Jesus-like.....whatever) existence? Won't I be making the world (God's creation) a BETTER place to live in?

3. Can I live that 'honest' or 'just' life and have God in my life but NOT have a church or organized religion in my life and still go to Heaven?

4. Who are you to judge (I seem to remember that being mentioned in the new testament as well) Who is going to heaven and what they believe?

4. If we all lived the above described life, would it matter a RAT'S SPHINXTER what each of us believed?

 

76supercab2:

Did I ever say you couldn't live a good and honest life without God. No, I never did. You can live however you want without God in the mix. What I'm saying, by basing it on the Bible, you can't go to Heaven without accepting God. If you are talking Christianity, you're talking Bible.

Also, what if Yap really believed in something that was wrong? I'm not gonna say it is, but what if? What if I were the only one that could reach him and tell him the truth? Then that's what I'm gonna do.

Also, I'm not in any place to judge anyone. God is and always will be. That's why I said read Romans. It talks a whole bunch on how to be saved. (ie: the road to salvation) Ever heard of the "Roman's Road?"

I think you totally missed my point. By what the Bible says, you can't go to Heaven without God, even if you lived a good life on Earth. Maybe that makes better since for ya!

 

There is something wrong with:
"By what the Bible says, you can't go to Heaven without God, even if you lived a good life on Earth."

Because the Quran says you can't go to heaven but through the ways of Islam.

The Torah says that unless your one of the chosen people your not going to heaven.

Buddist believe that you will be reincarnated.

Hindu's believe something else entirely
What about Shinto, Confucious and any other religions out there?

I can't believe that a native in the deepest part of the rain forest, who has never been exposed to christianity, is doomed to hell. What does the bible say about them? The fact that there are so many other religions on earth coupled with the if your not exposed to god you go to hell routine is proof enough that the bible is not the "ultimate roadmap" to an afterlife.

All this discontent and warfare that has occured throughout the ages due to religious differences, just goes to show ya that Man has tampered to much with the "word of God" to really get an accurate picture of what the original meanings were.

 

We all make judgements. It's only human.

I judge people by their works not their motivation(beliefs).

I don't care what makes you good only that you are.

That's why I have no real problem with Christians of any type,
as long as they aren't bending my ear, which many can't resist doing.

My only bias is that an atheist who is good without believing in reward or punishment after death would seem to me to be more enlightened. IMO

 

bigdmizer:

Like I said (however many posts ago), everyone is entitled their own beliefs. If you believe in the Bible, then what I say is true. If you believe in the Koran or whatever else, that's fine too. Live by what you live by. But if you are only gonna live for it halfway, you might as well give it up. I'm just speaking what I believe. I'm not trying to force the belief down anyone's throat or make myself out to be some righteous guru. I'm just saying what I believe according to God's word. To that, there is no argument. (unless you don't believe the Bible that is...)

Also, how many people have you seen healed by Buddha (sp?) lately? How many lives have you seen transformed or turned around because they accepted the Islamic faith? Muhammed (sp?) himself (I think) claimed that he wasn't a God, but people still worship him. I think there is even a nation or tribe in the Middle East that worships a tooth out of Muhammed's mouth. To live by the almighty God, or by the almighty tooth of a man...just seems like an easy decision to me.

Just so you'll know, I have seen people totally healed by prayer from other Christians. I've seen the Doctor's records to prove it! One minute, the Cancer was spreading like wildfire, the next minute, the Cancer was totally gone, and body parts were restored. A lady in our own church had this happen to her. Also, there was a woman who was barren (couldn't have kids) because of cysts on her ovaries. Also, she has many bruises in her birth canal. The preacher and leaders from my church laid hands on her, prayed for her, and the next day she was totally healed. I could go on about other healings like this, but you get my point. I believe in a God that I know is real. Sorry, but I've never had Buddha or any other god do anything for me lately. What about you? Correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

Sinjin, very well said. I especially like you last point.

True4.2:
"Also, what if Yap really believed in something that was wrong? I'm not gonna say it is, but what if? What if I were the only one that could reach him and tell him the truth?"

There you go using one of those prhases again. This belief of the keys to heaven is The Truth according to your faith, upbringing, and who you've been associating with. I don't believe in that 'truth', and I never will.

What I do believe is that that exact statement "You cannot enter heaven unless you believe as I do" Is the very FOUNDATION for the rationalization of killing innocent men, women, and children throughout history. Be it the holocaust, white men killing native americans, the crusades, the fighting in Ireland, or the unrest in Israel. Is THAT what your 'truth' is about? Is THAT what your god teaches?

Somebody decided at the founding of their religion that they needed to be able to recruit more members. So they say the only way to 'eternal salvation' is through their belief system and whammo -- fighting, wars and dead people. Kinda counter to the whole 'God is Love' thing isn't it?

BTW, your last sentence makes no "sense". ;-)

 

True4.2,
I am happy for you. I'm glad you have found a faith that makes you a better person. You seem to have the kind of faith that I will never have. I'm to skeptical, that being said , David Koresch, Bob Jones and many others have made similar claims of healing. I'm not saying that you haven't witnessed these things occur, I am just extremely skeptical. I have however seen a woman who had Cancer in multiple locations throughout her body go into complete remission without a doctors help by completely changing her diet to a weird Chinese herbal diet. She was an athiest, and she healed her self through some wacked out chinese medicine man. Miracle? There are many things man cannot explain yet with regard to science and nature. The potential of the human brain is unfathomable. We have only scratched the surface of it's potential. The wonders of nature are only just beginning to be understood. I believe when people cannot explain something because it is beyond there understanding they attribute it to a higher power or some other faith based explanation. If do so gives them comfort and understanding of their world then good. It keeps things simple for them. Is it the correct explanation? I don't think so. The world was once Flat you know, and the earth was the center of the universe. If you believed anything else you were a heretic and burned at the stake. Why? Because a faith based understanding of the world said so. Tomatoes were also considered the devils fruit and poisonous. If a woman healed someone through herbs or some other method not attributed to God, she was a witch and burned at the stake. The list goes on and on, what does it say to me? It says that many times through out history when man could not come up with a logical explanation, for an event or occurance, due to lack of knowledge or understanding for their environment or science then they attributed it to some supernatural spiritual reason. Take Ghosts for example......they recently came to an understanding of what they call Infra-sound and how it effects people, animals and even inanimate objects. The super low frequency created by normal events in nature, raise the hair on the backs of peoples necks, make them think something is there when there is not, send animals into a panic, and even cause objects to vibrate slightly and move. They are sound waves that we can't hear or detect without sensative equipment yet they are there and effect everything around us. These infra-sound waves are responsible for what people have called ghosts and supernatural events. When all along it was just sound waves that were previously undetected.
By the way there are many "claims" of miracles that are attributed to Budda and Muhammed. Every Faith or religion lays claims to supposed Miracles taking place that they attribute to their Gods. I suppose if you were to speak to any devout follower of those religions they could tell you.

 

76supercab2:

I'm done with you. You are obviously missing my entire point. I'm not gonna sit here and explain it a thousand times for you. If you can't understand what I'm talking about, I'm sorry. May God bless you.

bigdmizer:

I totally agree with you. I'm a pretty skeptical person myself. I can definately understand where you're coming from. I think you have more faith than you realize.

 

This thread has turned off-topic even in the context of this off-topic thread. It has turned into christian-vs-non-christian debate. I am going to try to moderate it back into its roots.

The initial message was addressed only to those who publically profess to adhere to a certain faith, Christianity in this case. I pointed out, that their lives didn't really reflect their faith, the inconsistencies. I think Christianity requires more from a person than passive preaching about God's goodness and salvation. Far more. Intolerably more sometimes.

Jesus, was who God, dedicated his entire life to his cause. People who claim to follow Jesus, should also dedicate their lives to the cause, utterly and without any reservations. If they don't, they are self-evidently disqualified from the title. In fact, their lives should speak for them. You should look at someone and immediately think - well, this is a person who is dedicated with a calling. Being intimately engaged to the World while passively preaching about God and salvation is utter nonsense, it is token and it has no credibility.

How do you know that Mother Teresa was a Christian? Because she said so?

Jesus said , give everything to the poor and follow me. You can take this on several levels, first literally, but also figuratively. The point is the degree of dedication.

I think I have more respect for an atheist who is living his belief system than for a Christian, who doesn't. What's the point of a belief system if you cannot live it? Just to appease your conscience? A placebo?

 

carpe_diem,

As an atheist I'll claim what you said and say thank you.

As far as Mother Teresa, I was raised Catholic and when I was in school we used to sing a song that went "They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, they will know...". Do you know this one?

Anyway, I would say Mother Teresa was more
Christ-like(Christian) than all the "Christians" in our "bible belt"
put together.

 

I totally agree with both of you. Christians that are absolutely dedicated to God are rare these days. But that doesn't mean that they aren't out there. I believe you Carpe when you say that people have a token christianic lifestyle. There are many people like that in this world.

What I don't agree with is that (correct me if I'm wrong about this) you said there aren't anymore devout Christians in the world today. I know people that would give their life for the cause of Christ. I know people that have died that claimed God as their savior. Our world can show how sick it really is sometimes. I have no idea what I consider myself in that aspect. I call myself a Christian, and I try as hard as I can to live like one. Also, I too would rather know an athiest that doesn't believe in God than a Christian that lives a token life towards God. Well put...

 

Dr. Seuss is the divine spirit and the Cat in the Hat is our savior. We should all read and accept His scripture, for it is the word of our LORD, copyright 1972, so we know it's legit, yo. Accept no substitutes, for Sam I Am is the anti-Seuss, and he will try to lure you into the sin and debauchery of Green Eggs and Ham.
Thou shalt not eat them in a box, Thou shalt not eat them with a fox.
Religion is boring and obsolete, kinda like playing Atari on a plasma screen TV.
BDV