If this posts sounds controversial, it's because it was meant to be. I wanted a attention-catching title: The death of Christianity, token/paper christians, collapse and ressurection.

For a number of years now, I have been thinking how Christianity has been utterly ineffective in dealing with the problems confronting this world. I was wondering why that was. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that somewhere in the last 2,000 years, the religion died and what we have here does not resemble Christianity anymore.

I've come to realize I am not a Christian. I don't identify with what we think of as Christianity. Don't misunderstand. I don't question the divinity of Jesus, the correctness of the old testatment and other key beliefs.

For the first 300 years, the teachings of Jesus were passed on verbally. Somewhere around 300AD, they had council of Nacea which created the Bible. But, somehow the Bible has become an idol which we worship. So has the church. Contemporary/token Christians worship these two idols but they don't live a Christian life. Understand - the Bible is not God. The church is not God. These are meaningless items without the substance of faith.

The term "Christian" means "little Christ". Faith means a person who lives a Christ-like life, emulating Christ - not perfectly of course, but emulating nonetheless. What kind of life is this? It is a life of unconditional, on-going self-sacrifice. Look at the lives of the original Christians. They were killed for their faith in the hostile Roman empire.

Now look at 21st century America. What we have does not even closely resemble Christianity - and I don't mean the godless masses, I mean those in the Church. They don't live their faith. They don't live a Christian life. 99.9% of it is entirely token, they are paper Christians - in word and not in deed. Take away the empty label and they are just like anyone else. The difference between "Christians" and the rest of them is like Coke and Pepsi, different packaging but same substance.

These token Christians have done more damage to true faith that diametrically opposing ideologies (nihilism, egoism). Christianity hasn't just been defeated, it has been subverted from the inside. There is nothing left. The whole thing needs to be built anew.

The Bible defines many things about Christianity. It is a self-sacrificing lifestyle. It must always cost you something. Donating $20 per week to your church is not a sacrifice, it is a token which offends God. Christianity is a token today. _Living_ your faith is a not a token. One's entire life must be geared according to faith.

The ultimate litmus test of your faith is, when someone looks at you, it should immediately be obvious that you are a person who is living your faith. And when that's not the case, no superfluous labels are necessary or desired. Always remember, a person's actions speak way louder than any token gestures you can make. The contemporary Christians have become "the world", married to the world, and happy with the engagement, donating crumbs off their table, only to appease their conscience and nothing more. These people are worse than dishonest, they are deluded. They think they are righteous, but they are the antithesis of goodness. What makes a person a Christian is how he lives his life, or as Jesus said, you will know the tree by its fruit.

Somehow the whole Christian thing has been reworked for the lowest common denominator. Confess your sins, accept Jesus and you are saved. These are false teachings, by false prophets. Accept these false teaching and your entire life is wasted. The validation of your life is in forgiveness of your sins by Jesus. That's not true.

If I were God, I would take all these token offering and throw them back in their faces. This is what not what God wants. He wants the substance and uncompromisingly so. How much does your faith cost you? Tokens?

It will take a miracle for Christianity to come back. God might fix it - but then again, he might just let this nonsense go on for 10,000 years.

 

May I copy, and possibly show others your post please?

It is a truth that I have felt for years, and suffered because of, this week. I would like to use your words, credited to you, for a much greater audience, because it is a truth that must be heard in more places than just this forum.

Theo

 

thats good, i have noticed this in my home church, and its been brought up that christianity is a relationship between you and God and not so much a religion. its sad that alot of people are living like you mentioned in your post and are actually hypocrites, (i dont know if i spelled that right) and really dont even know it

 

theologian,

Please do. The catalyst for this post, (in part, anyway - there are others) in all honesty, was me reading about your situation with the church and the price you paid. That's what triggered it.

 

I came to a similar conclusion late last year. The religion is no more. The world has morphed it into some sort of weekly ritual with no spiritual meaning. We stopped going to church about 12 years ago, because it became absorbed by gossip and business.
For me, it meant nothing. Now I am a lot older (20), and my eyes have been opened to the world. I find that Satan's grasp is so tight, we are all blinded by it.
The hardest step is knowing where to start over.

 

Are you living in a box perhaps? I think you have missed a great deal. This post can spin way out of control very quickly so I will not debate your points since it is late and I need sleep. Your thoughts though are commendable. But I will check back.

It is possible I misunderstood your post.

 

It is tight but I do not agree all are blinded by it. That is not to say I have all the answers. Knowing where to start is easy.

 

OK, maybe not all of us are completely blinded, but I know I was...

 

Colossus,

You hit the nail squarely on the head.

The Church of course is not a physical building, it is an intangible reality. It is what exists when those who accept the real message associate. When it becomes a tangible procedure, the church dies. When there is no church, when it dies in us, no physical reality will overturn that.

On a different note, there is lots of good news. You can live your faith even in these Dark Ages. My faith is certainly based on God, but my interpretation of things is much different as you can see.

I think we are in the post-apocalyptic phase. The civilization has already collapsed and the collapse of Christianity only highlights it. All of the Biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled, including the Second Coming. The new Dark Age is here and has been here for a while.

Remember the first Dark Ages, circa 1000AD? Back then, it was the Church that saved European civilization. It remains to be seen how things turn out this time. But this Dark Age is way darker than the last Dark Age. We have no moral absolutes. Everything is permissible, everything is relative and in your opinion. Human life is no longer sacred, the result of moral relativism - and you can go on and on on. Dark times. It is very depressing that those who are most responsible for restoring the civilization are living a self-indulgent, corrupt lives while donating tokens to the cause.

Everywhere I say Christianity - I mean contemporary Chistianity of course. Not the teachings of Jesus, who truly defined Christianity. Was Jesus wealthy? Did he evade personal responsibility? Well, what kind of life did Jesus lead? Understand that and you will understand Christianity.

There is redemption in our dark times. It's just coming from a different source. See, all you have to do is live your life without fear. Sounds very banal. But it is true.

Today's Christianity is a worldview based on fear and false promises. It's key tenet today is that while you are a sinful human being, and all you have to do is accept Jesus and you will be assured an eternity in heaven. This has become a mechanism for not taking any responsibility for what's going on in this world. What difference does the world make when I am going to heaven anyway. As I said before, if youf faith doesn't cost you anything, it is null and void. That's where the collapse occured.

When you hear accept a false message, whatever it is, and then base your life on that, your entire life from that point on is neutralized. Instead of living substance, your life is an empty shell, full of fear, anxiety, paranoia and lack of satisfaction and ultimately not validated. Jesus' acceptance is a good thing but it is most certainly not _the_ validation of your existence. See, this "I accept Jesus as my savior" is a token, and God has higher expectations than that. (What does this acceptance entail, anyway, on a non-token level?) Problem is, these expecations cost us something, they cost a great deal and we love the world too much. So what's the validation of you and your life here? Very simple. It is living your life, without fear. There is actually a lot of good news.

 

Well, I believe a little differently. I think we are in the pre-apocalyptic phase. I believe that the last century (20th) is the prelude to the real apocalypse. But when that is I don't know. I believe the second coming has yet to be fulfilled. We have been prepared for when it will come. Meantime, I am going to seek God, worship him, and hopefully correct my life in the process.
I agree with you on the responsibility issue. "Once saved always saved" isn't a good argument. It takes work.

 

"Donating $20 per week to your church is not a sacrifice, it is a token which offends God."

I agree with this if they give $20 every Sunday just because that's what they have always done, or it's not atleast a tenth of their income. We should give above and beyond a tenth. God says that he will reward us. Both here on earth and in Heaven.

"The ultimate litmus test of your faith is, when someone looks at you, it should immediately be obvious that you are a person who is living your faith. And when that's not the case, no superfluous labels are necessary or desired. Always remember, a person's actions speak way louder than any token gestures you can make. The contemporary Christians have become "the world", married to the world, and happy with the engagement..."

Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like you want us Christians to wear suits with "I Love Jesus" stickers all over them. If I did understand this wrong, I'm sorry, just ignore it.

I know some people that would call our family "extreme Christians" because we wear shorts and listen to contemperary Christian music.


"Somehow the whole Christian thing has been reworked for the lowest common denominator. Confess your sins, accept Jesus and you are saved. These are false teachings, by false prophets. Accept these false teaching and your entire life is wasted. The validation of your life is in forgiveness of your sins by Jesus. That's not true."

This is what really made me want to reply.

Romans, 10: 9-13

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the scripture says, "Anyone who puts his trust in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


I've ignored threads like these in the past, on any message board, just because they always seem to turn into flame wars. I hope that dosen't happen to this one.

 

Most of the time I see these "religious" posts I roll my eyes and wonder what one dimensional rhetoric will I be subjected to next. What a pleasant surprise to see such an insightfull and thought provoking dialogue. I am very impressed. Sure, I'm prejudiced since I agree on many points, but its nice to see something like this when I start feeling like "thinking" is dead. As a great thinker once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living"...

Thanks Carpe!

 

"The second coming has yet to be fulfilled" Yup, and I believe it will be very soon.

I sometimes have to remind myself of one Steven Curtis Chapmans songs- "...I'm living the next 5 minutes, like it's my last 5 minutes, 'cause it may be all I have..."

 

I was raised a Catholic. With the recent sex scandels in the church, I thought they were isolated incidents.
Last week a memo surfaced from the vatican dated twenty years ago. It instructed parishes on how to cover up sexual abuse by priests. This came directly from the vatican. They knew. They lied.
So now I don't consider the catholic church a christian organization. They lied about this, what else are they lying about?
Now I speak out against the catholic church as hypocrits.
They are useless to me.
The demise of christianity started a long time ago.
zanny

 

All I can say about this is Wow, there is hope yet.

Theo.