Token Christianity
#166
08-21-2003, 04:47 PM
Post Fiend
Token Christianity
I think the reason that God doesn't step in and stop things like 9-11 is because where would the growth for mankind be if he continually saved us with miracles from bad things. We have access to the throne of God and it isn't any big secret how to get it. But as long as you have a negative attitude toward the Kingdom many of these great tools will be obscured from you.
There is a whole lot more to having a close and personal relationship with the Lord than the average person will see in high profile "christians".
Although nothing I say here may make any difference, the prayers I have put before God for you ALL will make a difference. In god's perfect time.
Many of the same doubtful attitudes I once shared until my bad choices had me in a no way out situation. God had to let me get to that point and then he reached out his hand and said there is one other thing you haven't tried yet. That was 8 years ago when I was 41. There is a God shaped void inside all of us and nothing else will fill it, not money, not sex, not other people, not power and not even old Ford pickups( although I have tried). In the words of Don Garrlits " I have tried life both ways, without Christ and with. With is definately better.
If you want to better understand why God created men the way He did , there is a book called Wild at Heart that will just blow you away. Author John Eldridge. Christian or not it will change the way you see yourself and other people, men especially.
There is a whole lot more to having a close and personal relationship with the Lord than the average person will see in high profile "christians".
Although nothing I say here may make any difference, the prayers I have put before God for you ALL will make a difference. In god's perfect time.
Many of the same doubtful attitudes I once shared until my bad choices had me in a no way out situation. God had to let me get to that point and then he reached out his hand and said there is one other thing you haven't tried yet. That was 8 years ago when I was 41. There is a God shaped void inside all of us and nothing else will fill it, not money, not sex, not other people, not power and not even old Ford pickups( although I have tried). In the words of Don Garrlits " I have tried life both ways, without Christ and with. With is definately better.
If you want to better understand why God created men the way He did , there is a book called Wild at Heart that will just blow you away. Author John Eldridge. Christian or not it will change the way you see yourself and other people, men especially.
#167
08-21-2003, 04:48 PM
Token Christianity
Quoting Carpe Diem:
______________________________________________
"Greywolf
One more question - if rebith or reincarnation is really true -- there is really nothing in the Bible that contradicts it (not that the Bible is the ultimate and perfect source of truth) , what are the consequences of this truth? "
______________________________________________
I knew this would come up, and the first consequence is that there is no way to duck out on responsibility for ones own actions.
One cannot for example commit murder and then suicide in turn as a means of escape, or by being 'saved' following a similar act expect to be unanswerable for whatever has been done - it simply awaits future reconciliation.
This of course introduces the concept of Karma along with reincarnation, that what we do comes back to us. And in this it seems to me a lot of people seem to think it follows that to believe in Karma one must follow an eastern religion such as Buddhism, but that isn't necessarily a given either.
I see no conflict with a Christian being subject to reincarnation. It simply presents further opportunity to practice Christian principles and grow in ones faith.
-Now-
Given all of that; reincarnation also implies that we may have situations from the past that must still be resolved in some way. Things that happened or decisions we made (with all of their consequences) that haven't been addressed in the prior incarnation and so come upon us in the present.
Since we do not retain any conscious memory of having lived here before, this can create unusual situations as you can well imagine.
I can think of a few people I have known that seemed to have amazingly bad luck all of the time. Not only with simple things, but also in major ways involving finance, relationships, violence, et cetera...
BEYOND that though -
In one of the Edgar Cayce 'Readings' there was an individual with an unrealistic fear of knives and blades. According to Cayce (during the reading) this was because they were what (he/she) had been killed with in a prior physical existance, or incarnation.
-Though there was no conscious memory to support such a fear, (his/her) unconscious mind/self definately did remember, and it manifested as an unexplainable fear in the present day.
Hmm, I honestly don't recall the subjects gender. It's been a while since I read over that account. But you can grasp the significance and the mechanism involved.
Some here may be familiar with the principles of 'Dyanetics' and they are indeed at work in most if not all of our lives. What the author of "Dyanetics" was thinking in terms of however was a single lifetime, and events that took place more or less recently but had nonetheless been forgotten.
The (if I can coin a term here) 'Caycean' model puts it that (Dyanetic) influences can have an effect from one incarnation to another, because the subconscious mind carries a record of all previous life experiences. Therefore, although we may not immediately know why we feel a certain way about things (that we may or may not have been exposed to in our present situation), there may in fact be a root cause that we are not consciously aware of.
Assume someone had been killed by wolves in a prior existance - might that go a long way towards explaining an irrational fear of dogs? Suppose someone died by falling from a cliff, it would follow that they might have an extraordinary fear of heights - and so on....
Though by no means all inclusive, here anyway are a few examples of what you asked.
~Wolf
______________________________________________
"Greywolf
One more question - if rebith or reincarnation is really true -- there is really nothing in the Bible that contradicts it (not that the Bible is the ultimate and perfect source of truth) , what are the consequences of this truth? "
______________________________________________
I knew this would come up, and the first consequence is that there is no way to duck out on responsibility for ones own actions.
One cannot for example commit murder and then suicide in turn as a means of escape, or by being 'saved' following a similar act expect to be unanswerable for whatever has been done - it simply awaits future reconciliation.
This of course introduces the concept of Karma along with reincarnation, that what we do comes back to us. And in this it seems to me a lot of people seem to think it follows that to believe in Karma one must follow an eastern religion such as Buddhism, but that isn't necessarily a given either.
I see no conflict with a Christian being subject to reincarnation. It simply presents further opportunity to practice Christian principles and grow in ones faith.
-Now-
Given all of that; reincarnation also implies that we may have situations from the past that must still be resolved in some way. Things that happened or decisions we made (with all of their consequences) that haven't been addressed in the prior incarnation and so come upon us in the present.
Since we do not retain any conscious memory of having lived here before, this can create unusual situations as you can well imagine.
I can think of a few people I have known that seemed to have amazingly bad luck all of the time. Not only with simple things, but also in major ways involving finance, relationships, violence, et cetera...
BEYOND that though -
In one of the Edgar Cayce 'Readings' there was an individual with an unrealistic fear of knives and blades. According to Cayce (during the reading) this was because they were what (he/she) had been killed with in a prior physical existance, or incarnation.
-Though there was no conscious memory to support such a fear, (his/her) unconscious mind/self definately did remember, and it manifested as an unexplainable fear in the present day.
Hmm, I honestly don't recall the subjects gender. It's been a while since I read over that account. But you can grasp the significance and the mechanism involved.
Some here may be familiar with the principles of 'Dyanetics' and they are indeed at work in most if not all of our lives. What the author of "Dyanetics" was thinking in terms of however was a single lifetime, and events that took place more or less recently but had nonetheless been forgotten.
The (if I can coin a term here) 'Caycean' model puts it that (Dyanetic) influences can have an effect from one incarnation to another, because the subconscious mind carries a record of all previous life experiences. Therefore, although we may not immediately know why we feel a certain way about things (that we may or may not have been exposed to in our present situation), there may in fact be a root cause that we are not consciously aware of.
Assume someone had been killed by wolves in a prior existance - might that go a long way towards explaining an irrational fear of dogs? Suppose someone died by falling from a cliff, it would follow that they might have an extraordinary fear of heights - and so on....
Though by no means all inclusive, here anyway are a few examples of what you asked.
~Wolf
Last edited by Greywolf; 08-21-2003 at 05:21 PM.
#168
08-21-2003, 07:18 PM
Post Fiend
Token Christianity
Originally posted by carpe_diem
[B] I pointed out that the adherents of Christianity are not living their faith, their belief system. This point hasn't been refuted or even acknowledged. Because there is nothing to say. Because it is true..
[B] I pointed out that the adherents of Christianity are not living their faith, their belief system. This point hasn't been refuted or even acknowledged. Because there is nothing to say. Because it is true..
I disagree with your statement. I think you are picking and choosing again. Should I post a 900 word response? Nope, I don't think it will matter. Your mind is made up and you are comfortable with your decision.
#169
08-21-2003, 07:41 PM
Post Fiend
#170
08-21-2003, 07:48 PM
Token Christianity
I knew this would come up, and the first consequence is that there is no way to duck out on responsibility for ones own actions.
No, of course not. But I am not sure you follow the direction of my question. I am not questining the theoretical principles of reincarnation. The law of karma sounds reasonable, and just another way of saying "what you do comes back to you - now or later". It also says "you are the sum of all your past experiences". What I would like to know, is how this thinking has affected your life on a practical level. You know, the every day kinds of things, the nuts and bolts of it. Has it?
I read quite a bit on this when I was younger. E. Cayce is a controversial person of course, with his "readings". They may or may not be true. If they aren't, that doesn't invalide the concept. Anyway, some 15 years ago, when I first read about karma, etc. I thought this is interesting and plausible and doesn't really contradict anything "Christian". Now what? I couldn't find an application of all this knowledge, all this theory in my life and ultimately put in the "interesting but irrelevant" bin. Along with the stuff like how tall was the tallest person and chess ratings of Kasparov.
See, that's the focus of my inquiry. I want to know if there is a way to turn all of this rhetoric, whether Christian or karma into something tangible, here, not in some distant, theoretical future. What should I do about it? How should I change my life based on these principles? If there is no chnage in a person's life, the value of a philosophy is null. It is yet another meaningless token, kind of like what Christianity is today. Look at adherents to its philosophy, then look at someone who doesn't claim to belong to it, and there is no difference. If there is no difference, what's the point (aside from deluding the membership).
Most people don't think in terms of abstractions and theories. They want to know the practical side, the application aspect. It's like a truck - they don't want to know the theory of internal combustion engines, they want to know, I stick the key in here, push this pedal, and go - and here is where I get. If you don't communicate a truth on this practical level for the lowest common denominator, you will in all likelyhood gain zero converts.
Or is the agenda of "reincarnation" philosophy not behavior modification but simply inner peace? Satisfaction? Things of that nature?
Because that's the key difference between Eastern and Western religions. I am not sure I am a fan of the Eastern thought even though I read a lot of it. I undrestand the message well. As far as I can see, its adherents lead a very passive life, focusing inwards. All this Buddha stuff, is about being content in light of always difficult situation. And directs you to cease desires. One buddhist saying is "Love is the crocodile in the river of desire". Eastern religions teach to accomodate yourself to the world. Western, classical Christianity teaches you to accomodate the world to divine principles. There is a major schism there, they are diametrically opposite views.
And if you look at their world, countries like India, in fact, all of Asia, you will see the product of this world-view. Those who accept the Eastern thought do in fact live their belief system unlike "Christians". My reservations are about the substance of this belief system, I think it is flawed at its very roots.
Unless you somewhow extract the bits of value from Eastern thought and abandon the rest, which is of no use to you. That's what I've done.
No, of course not. But I am not sure you follow the direction of my question. I am not questining the theoretical principles of reincarnation. The law of karma sounds reasonable, and just another way of saying "what you do comes back to you - now or later". It also says "you are the sum of all your past experiences". What I would like to know, is how this thinking has affected your life on a practical level. You know, the every day kinds of things, the nuts and bolts of it. Has it?
I read quite a bit on this when I was younger. E. Cayce is a controversial person of course, with his "readings". They may or may not be true. If they aren't, that doesn't invalide the concept. Anyway, some 15 years ago, when I first read about karma, etc. I thought this is interesting and plausible and doesn't really contradict anything "Christian". Now what? I couldn't find an application of all this knowledge, all this theory in my life and ultimately put in the "interesting but irrelevant" bin. Along with the stuff like how tall was the tallest person and chess ratings of Kasparov.
See, that's the focus of my inquiry. I want to know if there is a way to turn all of this rhetoric, whether Christian or karma into something tangible, here, not in some distant, theoretical future. What should I do about it? How should I change my life based on these principles? If there is no chnage in a person's life, the value of a philosophy is null. It is yet another meaningless token, kind of like what Christianity is today. Look at adherents to its philosophy, then look at someone who doesn't claim to belong to it, and there is no difference. If there is no difference, what's the point (aside from deluding the membership).
Most people don't think in terms of abstractions and theories. They want to know the practical side, the application aspect. It's like a truck - they don't want to know the theory of internal combustion engines, they want to know, I stick the key in here, push this pedal, and go - and here is where I get. If you don't communicate a truth on this practical level for the lowest common denominator, you will in all likelyhood gain zero converts.
Or is the agenda of "reincarnation" philosophy not behavior modification but simply inner peace? Satisfaction? Things of that nature?
Because that's the key difference between Eastern and Western religions. I am not sure I am a fan of the Eastern thought even though I read a lot of it. I undrestand the message well. As far as I can see, its adherents lead a very passive life, focusing inwards. All this Buddha stuff, is about being content in light of always difficult situation. And directs you to cease desires. One buddhist saying is "Love is the crocodile in the river of desire". Eastern religions teach to accomodate yourself to the world. Western, classical Christianity teaches you to accomodate the world to divine principles. There is a major schism there, they are diametrically opposite views.
And if you look at their world, countries like India, in fact, all of Asia, you will see the product of this world-view. Those who accept the Eastern thought do in fact live their belief system unlike "Christians". My reservations are about the substance of this belief system, I think it is flawed at its very roots.
Unless you somewhow extract the bits of value from Eastern thought and abandon the rest, which is of no use to you. That's what I've done.
Last edited by carpe_diem; 08-21-2003 at 07:56 PM.
#172
08-21-2003, 09:57 PM
Senior User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North of Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Token Christianity
I have read through to the 5th page of this thread, (and plan on finishing at some point this week) but before I go, I wish to make my comments.
First of all, Fisher and Carpe, you two both have some very interesting points and have made for a very good read.
Everyone else, thank you for your input on the subject.
I have to say that although christanity is not as present in society today as some of us may like, I fell that faith is far from dead. I am more dedicated to my faith at this point in my life than ever before. I feel a strong conection to Christ, and I speek to him frequently. Christ lives. He is a part of our lives. He is everywhere always. It is up to us if we want to invite him into our hearts.
With a thread like this, that draws this much attention, and after readind some of your responces, I know that faith has not died.
Perhaps if we all shared our faith with 1 new person, society would be more comfortable expressing their faith in open.
I am not saying go out and be a Bible thumper, just do as Christ taught us to do. Go forth and spread the good news.
First of all, Fisher and Carpe, you two both have some very interesting points and have made for a very good read.
Everyone else, thank you for your input on the subject.
I have to say that although christanity is not as present in society today as some of us may like, I fell that faith is far from dead. I am more dedicated to my faith at this point in my life than ever before. I feel a strong conection to Christ, and I speek to him frequently. Christ lives. He is a part of our lives. He is everywhere always. It is up to us if we want to invite him into our hearts.
With a thread like this, that draws this much attention, and after readind some of your responces, I know that faith has not died.
Perhaps if we all shared our faith with 1 new person, society would be more comfortable expressing their faith in open.
I am not saying go out and be a Bible thumper, just do as Christ taught us to do. Go forth and spread the good news.
#173
08-22-2003, 01:30 AM
Token Christianity
(C_P)
Nice!
I don't recall seeing all of that defined in one spot before.
At any rate, it seems to me time to move on to other things at least for now. I have a sense of reaching a point of diminishing returns, and am wondering why that is since I had not intended to "sell" anything so to speak.
How to put it? As if I had acquired an obligation that isn't mine somehow...
Funny, I'm not quite sure where that came from.
Anyhow, it has been interesting - thank you.
~Wolf
Nice!
I don't recall seeing all of that defined in one spot before.
At any rate, it seems to me time to move on to other things at least for now. I have a sense of reaching a point of diminishing returns, and am wondering why that is since I had not intended to "sell" anything so to speak.
How to put it? As if I had acquired an obligation that isn't mine somehow...
Funny, I'm not quite sure where that came from.
Anyhow, it has been interesting - thank you.
~Wolf
Last edited by Greywolf; 08-22-2003 at 01:33 AM.
#174
08-22-2003, 02:39 AM
Post Fiend
Token Christianity
By their fruits you will know them. Math. 7:20. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Gal. 5:22-23
Jesus said" You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great comandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself".
The whole basis for a relationship with God is love. It is a thread that is woven through the whole Bible. If you are reading the Bible or quoting it and not seeing this then YOU ARE MISSING IT!!
If the people you are judging Christianity by do not have love for their God and other people then I suggest that you are looking at the wrong role models. And this love doesn't mean some kind of warm fuzzy feeling. It means that you want the best for that person, that you are concerned for his welfare.
Bear with me as I tell you of just a couple experiences. One late winter day we were coming home from church and there was a man laying in the road ditch on the snow. It was only 1/2 mile from the house so I made a quick decision to drop the wife and kids off and run back to check on him while my wife called the troopers. The man was desolate and half drunk. He was hitch hiking from Anchorage to Fairbanks. I saw several people that I knew who were coming from church, just slow down a little and then keep going. Even the troopers wouldn't help the man and suggested that I not get involved since he was a known drug user and I might get poked with a needle or something. So I loaded him up and drove him to the nearest store/ gas station and told him how much God loved him and got him a good meal. He just wept that anyone would do such a thing for him. Well after a while I decided that he was going to be ok and left him there, but before I got home I realized that I had bailed out before my duty as a fellow human and a Christian was finished. I turned around and went back but he was gone. To this day it grieves my heart that I didn't do all I could have for this man.
My wife has always picked up hitch hikers and one stormy winter evening about dark she came in with a huge, long haired fellow that was all wet. We let him use our shower and fed him a good meal, did his laundry and put him up for the night. He just happened to be a commercial airline pilot from Australia that had a situation where he needed to get from Anchorage to Faibanks. This man has never forgotten us and even though we have moved 3 times and now live in Texas he still sends us a card every so often. By allowing Christ to work through us we made a difference in that mans life.
This is what being a Christian means to us, not all the philosophy and retoric that seems to get bantered around here. Just trusting God and obeying his commandment to love other people and to help the weak, to take care of the widows and orphans. To look to Him for wisdom and strength and guidance.
Take off the blinders and quit judging us by some preconcieved notion that you have ferreted out ammunition to substanciate, Christianity is very much alive.
Jesus said" You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great comandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself".
The whole basis for a relationship with God is love. It is a thread that is woven through the whole Bible. If you are reading the Bible or quoting it and not seeing this then YOU ARE MISSING IT!!
If the people you are judging Christianity by do not have love for their God and other people then I suggest that you are looking at the wrong role models. And this love doesn't mean some kind of warm fuzzy feeling. It means that you want the best for that person, that you are concerned for his welfare.
Bear with me as I tell you of just a couple experiences. One late winter day we were coming home from church and there was a man laying in the road ditch on the snow. It was only 1/2 mile from the house so I made a quick decision to drop the wife and kids off and run back to check on him while my wife called the troopers. The man was desolate and half drunk. He was hitch hiking from Anchorage to Fairbanks. I saw several people that I knew who were coming from church, just slow down a little and then keep going. Even the troopers wouldn't help the man and suggested that I not get involved since he was a known drug user and I might get poked with a needle or something. So I loaded him up and drove him to the nearest store/ gas station and told him how much God loved him and got him a good meal. He just wept that anyone would do such a thing for him. Well after a while I decided that he was going to be ok and left him there, but before I got home I realized that I had bailed out before my duty as a fellow human and a Christian was finished. I turned around and went back but he was gone. To this day it grieves my heart that I didn't do all I could have for this man.
My wife has always picked up hitch hikers and one stormy winter evening about dark she came in with a huge, long haired fellow that was all wet. We let him use our shower and fed him a good meal, did his laundry and put him up for the night. He just happened to be a commercial airline pilot from Australia that had a situation where he needed to get from Anchorage to Faibanks. This man has never forgotten us and even though we have moved 3 times and now live in Texas he still sends us a card every so often. By allowing Christ to work through us we made a difference in that mans life.
This is what being a Christian means to us, not all the philosophy and retoric that seems to get bantered around here. Just trusting God and obeying his commandment to love other people and to help the weak, to take care of the widows and orphans. To look to Him for wisdom and strength and guidance.
Take off the blinders and quit judging us by some preconcieved notion that you have ferreted out ammunition to substanciate, Christianity is very much alive.
#175
08-22-2003, 09:36 AM
Postmaster
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary Canada
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#176
08-22-2003, 09:57 AM
Postmaster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lufkin
Posts: 3,310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Token Christianity
First let me say that I've been out for a week. My comp hasn't been letting me post for some reason. Anyways!
I haven't read any of page 9 of this thread, but I've read all the rest. It seems to me that people want proof that the Bible is real or God is real. That's where we get into debate and "unsure conclusions." You need to understand that the Bible wasn't something written for to read and decide if you believe it or not. It was written for believers who already have "FAITH" that it is real. God is the same way. He doesn't exist for you to choose to believe in him or not. He exists for you as Christians to follow his and his will for you. Ultimately God has a will for every person on this planet. You may not know that yet, but that is an entirely different discussion.
Faith is the ultimate thing that will make you believe in God. Like I said, it's a test for us. God A L W A Y S tested man-kind to see who would do what with his laws. I can't and never will sit here and prove to you the Bible is real. There is always an "excuse" that the Bible is not real. God, Heaven, and Hell are all made up. People choose to believe that because they are scared or unwilling to accept that God is over them. They want to control their lives on their own terms. That's fine. But if I were you, and I died, and I was sitting before God in Heaven with empty hands, I'd be kicking myself for not SIMPLY BELIEVING. It's that easy. What do you have to lose? Believe in God and at least try to live a pleasing life for him. How hard is that? I've done it for 10 years now, and it's the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I am not your father or leader. I'm a Christian. You can accept the truth, or you can deny it. It's still truth.
You either have faith that God doesn't exist, or that he does. Think about how much you lose or gain with those decisions. Compare the 2. I would keep going, but I'm at work so...I gotta get off my break. I'll be back to finish my thoughts.
I haven't read any of page 9 of this thread, but I've read all the rest. It seems to me that people want proof that the Bible is real or God is real. That's where we get into debate and "unsure conclusions." You need to understand that the Bible wasn't something written for to read and decide if you believe it or not. It was written for believers who already have "FAITH" that it is real. God is the same way. He doesn't exist for you to choose to believe in him or not. He exists for you as Christians to follow his and his will for you. Ultimately God has a will for every person on this planet. You may not know that yet, but that is an entirely different discussion.
Faith is the ultimate thing that will make you believe in God. Like I said, it's a test for us. God A L W A Y S tested man-kind to see who would do what with his laws. I can't and never will sit here and prove to you the Bible is real. There is always an "excuse" that the Bible is not real. God, Heaven, and Hell are all made up. People choose to believe that because they are scared or unwilling to accept that God is over them. They want to control their lives on their own terms. That's fine. But if I were you, and I died, and I was sitting before God in Heaven with empty hands, I'd be kicking myself for not SIMPLY BELIEVING. It's that easy. What do you have to lose? Believe in God and at least try to live a pleasing life for him. How hard is that? I've done it for 10 years now, and it's the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I am not your father or leader. I'm a Christian. You can accept the truth, or you can deny it. It's still truth.
You either have faith that God doesn't exist, or that he does. Think about how much you lose or gain with those decisions. Compare the 2. I would keep going, but I'm at work so...I gotta get off my break. I'll be back to finish my thoughts.
#177
08-22-2003, 01:14 PM
Postmaster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lufkin
Posts: 3,310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Token Christianity
Ok, I'm off work now. Where was I?!
Sorry, if you read the above post by me, don't take it as me trying to dictate your beliefs. I was writing in a hurry, so I was typing the first thing that popped in my head...didn't stop to think about it!
Bible - Think of the Bible as an instruction manual. You have your nice new Ford truck but the air in tires are low. You flip out the 'ol manual and read to see the proper psi rating for your tires. (you could also look at the tire itself, but I'm just using this as an example
) So you read until you find something like this -- "Your tires need to hold between 30 and 35 psi." You take some air and a gauge and fill up your tires to the proper psi. There! You've done it! You followed the instructions. 1. You had faith there was air in the tires already. 2. You trusted the manual to give you proper instructions. 3. You followed them and now your truck rides smooth as silk down the road until you hit a cow. (STINKIN COWS!) The Bible is the same thing. We, as Christians, need to study the Bible and learn exactly what a Christian life should consist of. A great book to read in the Bible is Proverbs. That book is full of wisdom. What's my point? The Bible wasn't written to prove that it is real. It was written to show you how to live a Godly life. I've heard this excuse plenty of times already in this thread -- The Bible has been "re-written" and put in so many different translations and languages that we couldn't possibly know if it's true. <-- All that is is and excuse not to live by it. That may sound mean or wrong to you, but it is an excuse. Excuses are like buttholes, everyone has one and they usually stink. Ever here that before? It is SO TRUE!
People just typically put an excuse on something they don't want. If you asked me to play a grueling game of Croquet, I'd either say no, or I'd make an excuse not to. I'm not interested in the game. In the same way we put an excuse on God and his Word. Because we don't want it. I have talked with people before who say, "Yes, I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, God and everything around it. I just choose not to live by it because I don't want to." That blows my mind! I wasn't raised in a rough home and I certainly haven't had trouble in my family. I think that makes it easier for me to accept that God is in control of my life. I have never even had the first taste of beer. A ciggarette (sp?) has never touched my lips. What's my point? That's just something I'm proud of. Am I condemning others for doing it? No. I'm just saying I've had a pretty easy life. How you are raised, your parents, your friends, and your decisions have a huge effect on your beliefs. That's why I am so "gung ho" about Christianity. Let me ask a question - Does anyone believe or even know who Benny Hinn is? He's a televangelist. I believe in him, and here is why. I did go to one of his services in Dallas about 3 or 4 years ago. I sat in the crowd of 1000's of people watching as he preached. At the end of his message, tons of people went down for repentance, prayer, etc. etc. Toward the end of the service he did this. He prayed for everyone still sitting in the stadium from the nose-bleed section down. He would say this, "TOUCH!" That was it. He went from left to right all the way around the stadium. Every person in that stadium fell, including myself. The "power of God" was in that building and it hit every person who wanted more of him. I am a person who needs some kind of proof to believe certain things. God has provided me the proof that he is and always will be real. We left that day (older man, his daughter, my friend, and myself) from the stadium amazed. Did Benny Hinn make us fall? No. God working through him did. Benny Hinn is a man just like me. God uses him for his work.
Faith - I don't know the exact definition of faith, but think of it like this. You get up, shower, get dressed, eat, and drive to work. It took incredible faith for you to do just that. 1. You had faith the sun was going to rise today. 2. You showered with the faith that water was going to come out. 3. You turned the light on and had faith it would work. 4. You drove to work...faith the almighty Ford would start, faith that when you passed through that green light, the other drivers would yield to you. 5. You had faith that when you got to work, you would do your normal routine (sp?), leave and go back home to this web-site with all kinds of new ideas flowing around in your head. You're just beginning to realize how much faith you have. You don't believe in God... You have faith that he doesn't exist... Am I getting through to you? Where do you think your faith comes from? Are you aware that God is listening to your thoughts at this exact moment? What are you thinking? You're thinking that you control your life, not this religious crud. So you're going to type what you think of my post... Then you'll go to sleep, wake up, drive to work, and come back home. Right? Some people don't believe in faith. That's the most confusing thing I've ever heard.
God - I have faith God exists, and that is all I need. When I die, I'll be in front of him, and he will judge me for what I believed and tried to follow. What will happen to me? Dunno... That's God's decision. I just try to do his will. See how easy that is? It's not as difficult as we are making it out to be.
I hope this got your brain going. God bless you!
Sorry, if you read the above post by me, don't take it as me trying to dictate your beliefs. I was writing in a hurry, so I was typing the first thing that popped in my head...didn't stop to think about it!
Bible - Think of the Bible as an instruction manual. You have your nice new Ford truck but the air in tires are low. You flip out the 'ol manual and read to see the proper psi rating for your tires. (you could also look at the tire itself, but I'm just using this as an example
) So you read until you find something like this -- "Your tires need to hold between 30 and 35 psi." You take some air and a gauge and fill up your tires to the proper psi. There! You've done it! You followed the instructions. 1. You had faith there was air in the tires already. 2. You trusted the manual to give you proper instructions. 3. You followed them and now your truck rides smooth as silk down the road until you hit a cow. (STINKIN COWS!) The Bible is the same thing. We, as Christians, need to study the Bible and learn exactly what a Christian life should consist of. A great book to read in the Bible is Proverbs. That book is full of wisdom. What's my point? The Bible wasn't written to prove that it is real. It was written to show you how to live a Godly life. I've heard this excuse plenty of times already in this thread -- The Bible has been "re-written" and put in so many different translations and languages that we couldn't possibly know if it's true. <-- All that is is and excuse not to live by it. That may sound mean or wrong to you, but it is an excuse. Excuses are like buttholes, everyone has one and they usually stink. Ever here that before? It is SO TRUE! People just typically put an excuse on something they don't want. If you asked me to play a grueling game of Croquet, I'd either say no, or I'd make an excuse not to. I'm not interested in the game. In the same way we put an excuse on God and his Word. Because we don't want it. I have talked with people before who say, "Yes, I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, God and everything around it. I just choose not to live by it because I don't want to." That blows my mind! I wasn't raised in a rough home and I certainly haven't had trouble in my family. I think that makes it easier for me to accept that God is in control of my life. I have never even had the first taste of beer. A ciggarette (sp?) has never touched my lips. What's my point? That's just something I'm proud of. Am I condemning others for doing it? No. I'm just saying I've had a pretty easy life. How you are raised, your parents, your friends, and your decisions have a huge effect on your beliefs. That's why I am so "gung ho" about Christianity. Let me ask a question - Does anyone believe or even know who Benny Hinn is? He's a televangelist. I believe in him, and here is why. I did go to one of his services in Dallas about 3 or 4 years ago. I sat in the crowd of 1000's of people watching as he preached. At the end of his message, tons of people went down for repentance, prayer, etc. etc. Toward the end of the service he did this. He prayed for everyone still sitting in the stadium from the nose-bleed section down. He would say this, "TOUCH!" That was it. He went from left to right all the way around the stadium. Every person in that stadium fell, including myself. The "power of God" was in that building and it hit every person who wanted more of him. I am a person who needs some kind of proof to believe certain things. God has provided me the proof that he is and always will be real. We left that day (older man, his daughter, my friend, and myself) from the stadium amazed. Did Benny Hinn make us fall? No. God working through him did. Benny Hinn is a man just like me. God uses him for his work.
Faith - I don't know the exact definition of faith, but think of it like this. You get up, shower, get dressed, eat, and drive to work. It took incredible faith for you to do just that. 1. You had faith the sun was going to rise today. 2. You showered with the faith that water was going to come out. 3. You turned the light on and had faith it would work. 4. You drove to work...faith the almighty Ford would start, faith that when you passed through that green light, the other drivers would yield to you. 5. You had faith that when you got to work, you would do your normal routine (sp?), leave and go back home to this web-site with all kinds of new ideas flowing around in your head. You're just beginning to realize how much faith you have. You don't believe in God... You have faith that he doesn't exist... Am I getting through to you? Where do you think your faith comes from? Are you aware that God is listening to your thoughts at this exact moment? What are you thinking? You're thinking that you control your life, not this religious crud. So you're going to type what you think of my post... Then you'll go to sleep, wake up, drive to work, and come back home. Right? Some people don't believe in faith. That's the most confusing thing I've ever heard.
God - I have faith God exists, and that is all I need. When I die, I'll be in front of him, and he will judge me for what I believed and tried to follow. What will happen to me? Dunno... That's God's decision. I just try to do his will. See how easy that is? It's not as difficult as we are making it out to be.
I hope this got your brain going. God bless you!
Last edited by true4.2; 08-22-2003 at 01:21 PM.
#178
08-22-2003, 01:47 PM
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#179
08-22-2003, 07:10 PM
Elder User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Token Christianity
Originally posted by JPS1989
I'm kinda surprised at the irreverence here.... some people (at least one) saying he's an open athiest...... I haven't read all the posts, but before you say you're an athiest, make sure about it, if you know what I mean! Have you even read the Bible? Read the King James version. It's the best.
I'm kinda surprised at the irreverence here.... some people (at least one) saying he's an open athiest...... I haven't read all the posts, but before you say you're an athiest, make sure about it, if you know what I mean! Have you even read the Bible? Read the King James version. It's the best.
I pretty much agree with Ventura: religion is usually a crutch for the weak-minded.