This makes for interesting reading....I'm subscribing.

 

I would agree entirely if this was filter change number one...but it is number two

 

I've had exremely powerful magnets from our downhole tools on my Chevy oil pan and rear axle for 230k or so and everything is still working great. I think the Idea of putting them on the fuel filters is a VERY smart idea for everyone of us as it will tell if there is some amount of metal in all of them. If there is then Ford needs to address this as it is indicative of a failure pattern which they are at times refusing to pay for. We had this problem in one of or downhole tools which we found to be debris from the manufacturing process in the ball bearings we used. We ultrasonicly cleaned each bearing before assembly and found lots of crap but after that no failures. I wonder how clean these Bosch pumps are when the are recieved and installed?

 

But we didn't see filter #1 so we can't say filter #1 produced X amount of debris and filter #2 produced X amount of debris.

 

We'll start seeing a trend one way or the other once folks start reporting in. I'll know what mine look like this Saturday.

 

My tractor has them in the hydraulic screen, works there, should work generally the same way here.

 

Why is it that folks seem fixated on adding a magnet? If the debris are entering the system via a fuel fill, won't the DFCM and secondary filters capture them as intended? And if they are coming from the HPFP, you're already screwed correct? And whatever metallic debris are non ferrous will not be caught right?

 

I used to pit crew on a race team. We would cut open filters for inspection after every race. Any time a filter had metal,,(less than yours) the motor was not run again until the problem was corrected.
Of course we had sponsors with some deep pockets,,,but they realized that pulling the motor out at the first signs of impending failure was cheaper than continuing to run it...Not to mention that no race is won when sitting in the pits with a blown up motor.

While it seems that some here want your experiment to continue while they debate excactly what is happening..... If it were me the experiment would be over. Unless those that wanted it to continue were to "sponsor" the continuation of the experiment by ponying up the cost of a HPFP replacement....This truck would be owned by someone else,,,,,SOON.

 

Oil/coolant filters or fuel filters though? The rest of the vehicle filters work inline with closed systems where the same fluid circulates through the filter many times and if you kept seeing an increase of particles being trapped by the filter, you could say that the source of those particles are from within the system. But fuel systems are not closed, you do 'consume' fluid and 'add' fluid to it regularly and instead of introducing new fluid once every many months or years it's every day or week... now if the laws of physics and the law of conservation of energy didn't exist I'd also love to run the same fuel over and over again but that's not how it works.
The other open system is the air filter, contaminants trapped in an air filter don't necessarily mean they came from the vehicle, most likely it came from outside.

To me, after reading the whole thread, it seems like the filter is doing its job capturing the particles and preventing them from entering the system (or re-entering, if it came from within the system), which is why it's installed in there. It is my understanding that it is not a bypass filter that takes a certain portion of the fluid and filters it, ALL of the fluid has to go through this series system of 2 filters. Now the other task, whether it's separating water we don't know, if someone tries on an old filter from the frame mounted pump/separator does it allow water to pass through? I'm not sure how water would be allowed to properly settle if there is always fluid flow through the chamber. If you take a water/oil mix and stir it enough you can get them to mix (emulsify) and it will take minutes to settle, but if there is always flow to stir everything up I don't know how a small amount of water would settle. I'd love to have the low pressure pump/filter/separator device to play with, apply power to it in a lab test scenario pulling from and feeding into clean beakers and running fuel, fuel/water mixtures, and fuel/solid contaminant through to evaluate effectiveness.

The water filter on the cold water pipe that enters my house traps a whole lot more ferrous metal sediment within its pleats, and the filter media is rated for 1µm. This almost makes Diesel fuel look way cleaner than tap water! (Of course I use a lot more water than fuel, so there's that scale.)

 

If you are responding to my race car experience,,both. THe oil was changed after every race. ALL filters were cut apart and inspected. Any visable metal in any of them sidelined the motor until it was fixed. And yes they used HPFPs.


On these trucks,
It is a semi closed system. At some point after the secondary filter, the excess fuel is returned to the tank. This has some cooling benefits on the components. The same fuel will go thru the filters many times. Any metal such as that from a degrading HPFP will end up in the tank, to be caught by the filter on the next pass.

Return line fuel systems have been around since the carburation days. Of course the pressures and volume of the new diesel systems have increased dramatically.

 

I KNEW something seemed peculiar about the way you write. Now it all makes sense!

gearloose1 is back, can I ask why?

 

As per my post, yes the DFCM filter contained all the material (that I know of). I did not find anything past the DFCM filter.

The reason I want to add a magnet is so that the material is all contained in one spot (instead of spread out over the area of the filter) this will give a better indication of HOW MUCH there is of it. You do not need a magnet to contain the material to the DFCM, the filter does it's job just fine (from what I have seen).

Huntingdog, the truck stays at this point. I have over 20k in mods that I can't take back. Selling the truck would be a 30k loss for me (starting over with something else). Plus I love the darn thing! And my consience will not let me sell what may be a ticking time bomb (not saying it is) to anyone.

Put her to the floor gettin on the highway this AM and felt really good. Whatever will be will be.......

Thanks

 

Darren, might it be worth taking everything to your dealer and showing it to him? I know your truck is tuned and don't want to through yourself under the bus, but maybe it can't hurt then either.

Possible out comes that I see:

1) No problem...wait and see
2) Want to investigate and maybe pull the pump
3) Sorry, see ya, have a nice day

My thought is if your are not going to get rid of the truck then you might want to see if they will cover anything before (when or if) the pump (if it is that) completely goes and takes more with it.

If they are not going to cover it later because of your mods then it won't matter now taking it to them to see what they might do for you.

Just a thought.

 

A moderator asked you a question.

 

Thanks, and yes it may be...
My dealer knows the truck is tuned, I took it in tuned for a warranty water pump (and told them when I tuned it Dec 2010). They do not seem to have any major issue with that. A tuned truck up here is not really out of the ordinary, there are lots of tuned 6.7's on the road. I never hid the fact from them (or anyone) and going back to stock is not an option for me. I do not have my EGR cooler, DEF tanks, pump and system of my DPF anyomre. I knew what I wa getting into when I tuned it and it is all on me which I don't have isue with.

However, if P164A is any indication, any information available will be here LONG before my dealer knows anything. I am going to hold off a bit and see if any others find anything and go from there.

I really believe that if I was not lookign for something I would not have found anything. If you don't cut the filter apart it looks clean as a whistle. I would have just wiped the crud out of the DFCM bowl and never given it a second thought. Maybe now that people are looking, as Epic says, we will see a trand. Maybe (and hopefully) there is not trend and my case is an isolated incident, contaminated for some other reason.

There are MANY of these truck up here in the oilfield and they get worked MUCH harder than mine and have WAY more miles. I am certain mine would not be the first to fail if it was a wide spread issue. Heck the favorite game is to chain 2 of them togerther and put it to the floor and see who can pull the hardest. I may liek to get on the throttle, but I do not beat on my truck.