Fuel Filter Analysis (Epic's request)
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 2,486
From: West Michigan
EDIT: Sorry misunderstood you, thought you meant the on-engine filter. We dont know when Darren added the transferflow tank. Could have been added to his truck between 1st and 2nd set of filter changes. Maybe he can answer that.
Lets not be so quick to rule-out something that could be very simple. Just Vloney's statement. I'd much rather believe that those cases were true than the other....
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,946
Likes: 11
From: Northern California
Trying to suggest it is due to the fact that he has an aftermarket fuel tank makes no sense to me...sorry.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Likes: 1,153
From: Edmonton Alberta
Thanks for all the support guys.
I hope this is a non issue as well.....
I just got back from a meeting and she still pumps out +29,000 PSI @ WFO
The transfer flow tank has been on since the truck was new, first thing I did at about 2,000 km.
Vloney, I hope you are right but the 2 stations I use are well established shell station. I never fill up when the tanker is there but who knows. The filings are WAY too small to be from threading pipe. Grinding maybe. I WOULD HOPE that shell would have some kind of filters to keep metal filing from getting into the tank??? Are the filings in any way normal??
I have no clue / proof or otherwise to tell where the filing came from. Hope a bunch of other people do this and DO NOT find anything.
This does however have me concerned.
Think about this for a moment if you will.
If the filing are in fact from the HPFP and end up in the tank via the return line. THEN this same contaminated fuel is what the injectors are seeing. That cannot be by design.
Thanks
I hope this is a non issue as well.....
I just got back from a meeting and she still pumps out +29,000 PSI @ WFO
The transfer flow tank has been on since the truck was new, first thing I did at about 2,000 km.
Vloney, I hope you are right but the 2 stations I use are well established shell station. I never fill up when the tanker is there but who knows. The filings are WAY too small to be from threading pipe. Grinding maybe. I WOULD HOPE that shell would have some kind of filters to keep metal filing from getting into the tank??? Are the filings in any way normal??
I have no clue / proof or otherwise to tell where the filing came from. Hope a bunch of other people do this and DO NOT find anything.
This does however have me concerned.
Think about this for a moment if you will.
If the filing are in fact from the HPFP and end up in the tank via the return line. THEN this same contaminated fuel is what the injectors are seeing. That cannot be by design.
Thanks
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 2,486
From: West Michigan
That hardly means it is his fuel tank...that just means these shavings have been sent back to the tank from the return fuel, have been kept in suspension, and sent back to the fuel rail.
Trying to suggest it is due to the fact that he has an aftermarket fuel tank makes no sense to me...sorry.
Trying to suggest it is due to the fact that he has an aftermarket fuel tank makes no sense to me...sorry.
And then to your point, YOU are jumping to conclusions that the shavings came back in the return line.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: E Washington
If someone will post a picture once they mount a magnet to the filter housing I will also do the same and participate if we are going to keep this clinical to gather info. I only have 5500 miles on my truck but I will put a magnet on mine in either the same spot or a different spot on my filter housing to see if it picks anything up. My truck is bone stock no aftermarket anything on mine. Post a picture of how you attatch the magnet and I will do the same. I will try to mount a couple on mine as I have a few rare earth magnets on hand.
Tom
Tom
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,946
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From: Northern California
Sorry, not trying to argue, but how far fetched could it be that there is/was debris in the transferflow tank when it was built, and never cleaned out? Not even saying it is falling apart. I only pointed out what it was made of because it "fits" with what was found. Had he installed a Titan tank made of plastic, I wouldnt have even brought it up.
And then to your point, YOU are jumping to conclusions that the shavings came back in the return line.
And then to your point, YOU are jumping to conclusions that the shavings came back in the return line.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,946
Likes: 11
From: Northern California
If the filing are in fact from the HPFP and end up in the tank via the return line. THEN this same contaminated fuel is what the injectors are seeing. That cannot be by design.
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I think the question of are these from an internal source or an external (from fueling) should be answered with the next filter change. If they are not there, then they most likely went into the tank when fueling. (Again, staying optimistic, not much else you can do at this point.)
Anyone have a bunch of cash laying around they don't need so we can get Darren a new pump so we can have his torn down and see what we find, I am a bit tapped out.
Anyone have a bunch of cash laying around they don't need so we can get Darren a new pump so we can have his torn down and see what we find, I am a bit tapped out.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 2,486
From: West Michigan
All I am trying to say is that there *could* be/have been junk in the tank from new, that was stopped by the DCFM filter. Darren has not said if he even checked his first set of filters for shavings, there could have been more junk then.
As mentioned, If this stuff came from the HPFP and it passed by the injectors, there is a pretty good chance there would have been multiple fuel injector failures. So that seems unlikely to me.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Likes: 1,153
From: Edmonton Alberta
One of us is really missing something, and yes, it could be me.
All I am trying to say is that there *could* be/have been junk in the tank from new, that was stopped by the DCFM filter. Darren has not said if he even checked his first set of filters for shavings, there could have been more junk then.
If this stuff came from the HPFP and it passed by the injectors, there is a pretty good chance there would have been multiple fuel injector failures.
All I am trying to say is that there *could* be/have been junk in the tank from new, that was stopped by the DCFM filter. Darren has not said if he even checked his first set of filters for shavings, there could have been more junk then.
If this stuff came from the HPFP and it passed by the injectors, there is a pretty good chance there would have been multiple fuel injector failures.
Like I said, I did not check the first filter very closely. But I do remember that it came off very easily (I was worried about it at the time becasue someone broke theirs taking it off). And I know I did not wipe out the housing. I looked in it and it was clean. This time the housing was very hard to get off, I thought I was going to break it. This was because there were metal filing in the threads.
I am not saying it is not possible that the tank was contaminated but I had Caytec equipment install it for me. They are pricey but do good work. They told me to pressure wash the underside of the truck and bring it in the night before so it would be all clean and dry when they did it. The guy that did it specializes in transfer flow tanks. I was in their very clean shop when it was installed (didn't look in the tank). I did everything right as far as the tank install goes.
Thanks
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 2,486
From: West Michigan
This one would surprise me if it were true. I've seen inside some of the diesel fuel pumps at the station, and of the ones I have seen, all had a spin-on filter that looks about the size of our oil filters, that the fuel passes through before it hits our trucks tank.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
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From: Isanti, MN
Wow...this is an interesting read.
Remember that there have been a few HPFP failures that we've seen recently, and none of the unfortunate victims mentioned any kind of injector failures beforehand. So if metal shavings are a precursor to HPFP failure it doesn't appear that they would necessarily take out the injectors. At least not right away...
Remember that there have been a few HPFP failures that we've seen recently, and none of the unfortunate victims mentioned any kind of injector failures beforehand. So if metal shavings are a precursor to HPFP failure it doesn't appear that they would necessarily take out the injectors. At least not right away...
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
Likes: 2
Wow...this is an interesting read.
Remember that there have been a few HPFP failures that we've seen recently, and none of the unfortunate victims mentioned any kind of injector failures beforehand. So if metal shavings are a precursor to HPFP failure it doesn't appear that they would necessarily take out the injectors. At least not right away...
Remember that there have been a few HPFP failures that we've seen recently, and none of the unfortunate victims mentioned any kind of injector failures beforehand. So if metal shavings are a precursor to HPFP failure it doesn't appear that they would necessarily take out the injectors. At least not right away...
I just cut open my secondary filter. I just clamped the filter in a vise and cut the bottom off with a hacksaw. Worked like a charm. The water membrane was intact and the pleats were clean.
I also cut open the DFCM filter. There were some metal and aluminum debris in the pleats and in the fine white screen inside the cartridge...no new news here...we expected that.
This reminds me of oil change time on the Cessna Cardinal...cutting filters to see if the engine is making metal...of course when that engine stops, the landing is mandatory...and now.
Regards
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,917
Likes: 2,640
From: The Great State of Texas
At this point no one really knows the source of this metal debris; but having said that, if the debris was coming from the HPFP could it be break in material just like you get on the magnet oil drain plug when an engine is new and breaking in?
Also a sample of 1 per engine is not enough data to say much more than what darren has reported. I think we need more samples/engine to confirm a trend.
Anything short of a analysis of the collect debris and the internals of the HPFP maybe very difficult to coorelate the two.
Also a sample of 1 per engine is not enough data to say much more than what darren has reported. I think we need more samples/engine to confirm a trend.
Anything short of a analysis of the collect debris and the internals of the HPFP maybe very difficult to coorelate the two.