On the 56 I have been starting and running it every week til the temps cool off and I get to working on it.

today it won't start.. starter won't turn.. the fender mounted solenoid kicks, and the gear plunger works. it did not start thursday night, but did turn over. now won't turn over. I have the battery on the charger.

short of taking the starter out, are there any cool tricks others have used I can try?

this is a 351W, stroker motor.. the engine turns by hand (well breaker bar)

thanks

Sam

 

I'd rule out the battery as a culprit first.

 

Sounds like the battery may be going or gone. Try another one of those first.

 

Normally when your battery is dead or almost dead, the solenoid will chatter. If yours is closing smartly but the starter motor does nothing, I'd try giving the starter a few good raps with a ball peen hammer. It would be best to try this whilst a helper was holding the key in the "start" position so that the solenoid is closed. If that works, start shopping for a new starter. This will get more frequent until it quits altogether. The connection of your ground cable to the engine block is another place to look. I've had more than one llosen up or corrode a little in that spot and exhibit your symptoms.

 

well, ended up pulling the starter out.. looks new..

works great on the ground!.. figures.. but its got its own solenoid too.

so the fender solenoid passes on its trigger signal and power leads..
never seen one done like that..
solenoid http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet.../F496/image/4/
starter http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet...3142S/image/4/

but the signal lead post is falling off the starter.. SO.. off to the store

I'm not sure the battery is at fault.. I just put it on the charger cause I was cranking it so much thur night. (need it out of the shop so I can work on the green truck)

Sam

 

When you started it each week, how long did you let it run and at what speed?
It's my understanding that to replace the amps required to start the engine it needs to run for a while and at a higher speed than at idle. Continually starting an engine without allowing the battery to return to full charge will eventually drain the battery. "I think"

 

I agree.. it usually only runs a few minutes.. not a good long term practice..

Sam

 

Sam, For what it's worth I had exactly the same thing happen with my engine that is mounted in a stand so I can crank and run it regularly til I get it in the truck. Ran it one day - no problems. Three days later - nothing. It wouldn't even jump off with cables to my daily driver. I feared the worst. Changes out the battery (which was fully charged and checked out good) and lo and behold it fired right off. As other's have suggested, rule out the battery first. Hope this helps, Steve

 

I had the exact same thing happen to my truck. And it turned out to be the starter.

BUT, it's alot easier to try it with another battery (be sure and completely take the old one out of the system first or it will "steal" power from the new one) then it is to pull out the starter.

Here's what mine did and the mistake I made. It acted like the battery was going dead. One day the starter would engage and turn fine. Then in a day or two it would engage and turn slowly - like a low battery. Then one day it just clunked and wouldn't turn at all.

I went and bought a new battery, put in and the same thing. So, I pulled out the starter and tried to trun it on the bench and it turned fine......hmmmmm.

Finally I took it up to Autozone where they have a tester and they said it was worn out and although it would turn, it didn't provide enough torque anymore to turn over the engine.

I bought a rebuilt starter and new solenoid for $35, installed it and it solved the problem.

Dead battery and dead starter acted almost exactly the same. Only difference I saw was the solenoid chatter. With a dead battery the solenoid would chatter, with a dead starter I heard just one clunk.

OBTW, my 390 starter has a bump on the top too. I'm not sure that that's a "solenoid" - but don't think so.

Here's a pic:



If you have an alternator on the truck, starting it up and letting it run until warm will charge up the battery some. And it will charge up and provide the big amps needed at fast idle (800-1000 rpm) to provide a heavy charge for about a minute before returning to the trickle charge. If you have a generator on the truck it won't do that - you have to run it over 1100 rpm for a few minutes. Use the fast idle with the choke or the throttle cable.

 

well, saga complete..

replaced the starter.. nope
tried a different battery.. nope

turns out it was the fender mounted solenoid. took the starter wire off and the post fell out..

and I learned something (the hard way again)..

the starter in the truck has an on board solenoid. so you don't NEED the fender mounted solenoid.. well sorta..

IF you get the instructions (AZ kept the box to recycle the starter I returned).. and it looks like there is a bridge on the starter..

IF you are using the fender mounted standard ford solenoid, leave the bridge installed..

IF you want to use the on board solenoid and NOT the fender mounted one, then REMOVE the bridge.. and add the start wire to the solenoid S post.

I didn't know about the bridge..

Sam

 

Well, unfortunately there's a bigger picture with Ford Starter Solenoids than just cuasing the starter to function.

The starter solenoid is the primary power distribution point and charge reception poin tin a Ford electrical system - so unless you want to completely change out your wiring to follow a "GM-off the battery" style power distribution with fuse panels, you have to have the starter soelnoid installed.

That's a different type of set up on that starter - never seen one like that. Wonder if it's a "generic use" type addition.

Glad you got that working

 

The bump on those Ford starters uses the field coil's magnetic field to move a piece that simultaneously closes the big contacts and throws the starter drive out. Very common on '60's Fords at least, well past that I believe.

For power distribution, you can do what GM does -- use this

 

Well, it's just a distribution point. Gm uses the post on the starter solenoid is all. My 55 is setup using the gm design. And the design is the same, just ford has the solenoid on the body.

To make this work without replacing any parts, you just move the starter wire on the body solenoid to the hot side, and run a wire from the inboard solenoid start lead to the start post on the body solenoid. These just become wire extensions really.

But i'm not touching it again until i strip the front end to fix the volare install.

Sam

 

No that's not at all true. Power distribution, charging distribution, wiring signal flow and even the components needed to complete those circuits are completely different on a Ford set up.

But I'm not going to get into an argument about it - considering my limited knowledge of the subject.

You're a sharp guy and if you have your truck wired how you want it - and it works, then outstanding. Function beats philosophy just about every time