More 460 starter problems
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From: Cleveland, WI USA
More 460 starter problems
I got a reman starter for my 78 F150 460 4x4 and it's already not working. It started fine the first 4 times, but after driving it for 30 minutes, it barely turns. With a fully charged battery, it turns over too slow to actually start the motor.
The problem I had with the old starter was hot starts, probably from the starter being so close to the exhaust manifolds. I have an aluminum heat shield that I made between the two, but the starter still gets hot. Even after letting the new starter cool down for 2 hours (in 30 deg. weather) , it still won't turn fast enough. Is it safe to assume that the heat from the exhaust manifold has killed my new starter?
Any thoughts?
Kevin K.
The problem I had with the old starter was hot starts, probably from the starter being so close to the exhaust manifolds. I have an aluminum heat shield that I made between the two, but the starter still gets hot. Even after letting the new starter cool down for 2 hours (in 30 deg. weather) , it still won't turn fast enough. Is it safe to assume that the heat from the exhaust manifold has killed my new starter?
Any thoughts?
Kevin K.
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Check for voltage drop along the starter circuit, cables, etc. You might just have a faulty reman starter. Sometimes those things have been rebuilt so many times, that the armature is reground too thin, and cant carry the amp load throught the brushes. See if ford still sells reman units, which are better than your chain stores, OR another choice is to have yours rebuilt properly by an elecrical shop that does these. Usually the shops that rebuild tractor starters, alternators, and even heavy duty trucks should get you in the right direction. Also, get the biggest (lowest guage) number wire to feed your starter, and from the battery to ground, and solenoid. One last thing, make sure the battery is charging
Stephen
Stephen
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From: Cleveland, WI USA
Thanks woppini. Great suggestions.
My first thought was to have it rebuilt by the guy who did my tractor and boat starters, but the inerts were pretty cooked. I also got a heck of a deal on the starter.
I'm sure there's voltage getting to it cuz the solenoid-to-starter cable was hot as heck, even smoking at times (to thin, I think).
I was going to check the charging system too, but it has to be running for that. I'll do that first thing when I get a replacement starter.
Thanks again for the help.
Kevin K.
My first thought was to have it rebuilt by the guy who did my tractor and boat starters, but the inerts were pretty cooked. I also got a heck of a deal on the starter.
I'm sure there's voltage getting to it cuz the solenoid-to-starter cable was hot as heck, even smoking at times (to thin, I think).
I was going to check the charging system too, but it has to be running for that. I'll do that first thing when I get a replacement starter.
Thanks again for the help.
Kevin K.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: BC, Canada
Unfortunately this sounds all too familiar. My 429 goes through starters every couple years and it's the same engine configuration. With headers on they lasted even less time. I thought a shroud would help but it sounds like you didn't have much success with it either.
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From: Bay Area, California
460 and starter woes
I hgad the SAME problem. Replace all of your battery cables. Mine turned out to be the ground cable which bolts to the front passenger side of the block. It was the original cable and looked fine but the crimp connection at the block end connector was shot. The truck would start fine cold but as it heated up, the starter wouldn't turn over.
Replaced all cables and cleaned all connections and it is like new.
John Neary
Replaced all cables and cleaned all connections and it is like new.
John Neary
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From: lino lakes, mn
you first clue should be the hot cables hot means high resistance change them get some good welding cable like 2gauge or larger even 00 have an electrical shop tin the ends and crimp new ends on they have the big crimpers needed for this tin the battery ends and used good quality battery clamps clean all connections now see if it starts
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From: Louisville,Ky.
Also, make sure that the base timing isn't too high, It is more apt to drag a starter when hot than when cold. it tries to fire while the piston is coming up and it will kill a starter quick.
I would also replace the ground, battery to solenoid, and solenoid to starter wires just to be safe. My Mustang did the same thing and it was a bad ground wire even though the starter showed to be drawing 780 amps!!
Jimmy
I would also replace the ground, battery to solenoid, and solenoid to starter wires just to be safe. My Mustang did the same thing and it was a bad ground wire even though the starter showed to be drawing 780 amps!!
Jimmy
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From: Cleveland, WI USA
Thanks for the suggestions.
All the cables are new, but I think they're 6 gauge. I'll look for thicker ones.
I'll also be redesigning my heat shield. I'll be using 2 layers of aluminum with fiberglass insulation between. I'm thinking I might also use some gasket material on the starter side. The shield is only about 1/4" away from the + stud on the starter. I'm wondering if it's possibly arcing to that and causing a problem.
Thanks again for the help.
Kevin K.
All the cables are new, but I think they're 6 gauge. I'll look for thicker ones.
I'll also be redesigning my heat shield. I'll be using 2 layers of aluminum with fiberglass insulation between. I'm thinking I might also use some gasket material on the starter side. The shield is only about 1/4" away from the + stud on the starter. I'm wondering if it's possibly arcing to that and causing a problem.
Thanks again for the help.
Kevin K.
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A 1/4" Arc is awful damn big; look for char or evidence of arcing on that positive terminal. An easier/quicker fix may be some hi-temperature electrical tape on that terminal.
When my starter was going flakey it turned out to be ground wires. I used two or zero gauge (welding) wire and soldered on connectors with a plumbing torch. Cleared up all of my hot starting problems. Run one from the battery to the block, block to frame just to be sure.
I can now literally run the truck in 35C/94F weather for hours on end without problems.
When my starter was going flakey it turned out to be ground wires. I used two or zero gauge (welding) wire and soldered on connectors with a plumbing torch. Cleared up all of my hot starting problems. Run one from the battery to the block, block to frame just to be sure.
I can now literally run the truck in 35C/94F weather for hours on end without problems.
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From: Cleveland, WI USA
Can I get 2 ga. or 00 ga. battery wires from an auto parts store or do I have to have them made? I know most of the tractor dealers around here will make them, but I'm guessing they're not cheap.
What about the starter solenoid - do they make heavy duty ones?
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Kevin K.
What about the starter solenoid - do they make heavy duty ones?
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Kevin K.
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From: Bay Area, California
460 battery cables
The set that I purchased were from a local parts store. The brand was Standard. The ground cable was a 0 gauge cable and the starter and battery positive cables were 2 gauge. I wouldn't want to go as small as 4 gauge on those cables.
Also, unless the metal plate is touching the starter positive terminal, there won't be any "arcing". 12 volts DC can't arc as there is not enough potential difference there to arc. It takes thousands of volts to create and arc across any appreciable gap between metal parts.
John
Also, unless the metal plate is touching the starter positive terminal, there won't be any "arcing". 12 volts DC can't arc as there is not enough potential difference there to arc. It takes thousands of volts to create and arc across any appreciable gap between metal parts.
John
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From: Cleveland, WI USA
Well, I'll be danged. I went to Autozone yesterday and got some new 2 ga. cables. One from the battery to the solenoid and one from the solenoid to the starter. They didn't have any black ones so I left the 4 ga. one on there.
Hooked 'em all up and the starter spins like mad.
I must admit that I was sure the starter was bad and I didn't believe the cables would make a bit of difference, but they made all the difference in the world.
Thanks all! I'll never doubt you again.
Kevin K.
Hooked 'em all up and the starter spins like mad.
I must admit that I was sure the starter was bad and I didn't believe the cables would make a bit of difference, but they made all the difference in the world.
Thanks all! I'll never doubt you again.
Kevin K.
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